How many CyberTruck prospective buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

[Amuma]

Wondering how many Tesla owners and prospective CyberTruck buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

So much of the hype for the CyberTruck strikes me as general hype for EVs without any consideration that not every EV is a Tesla. People seem to overlook that the Lightning and Rivian ARE EVs. The have super smooth, silent, rapid acceleration. They charge at home. They drive effortlessly in traffic. They have 300+ mile range.

Had a Tesla owner in my F150L the other day and they were amazed that the F150L actually drives like an EV. They assumed it would be more ICE like because its built by Ford and shaped the same as the ICE version?

No need with steer by wire lol

 

[drrjv]

I drove my friend's Ford Lightning. Nice truck overall, similar but a lat faster than my son's Ford F150 Hybrid.

 

[cvalue13]

FWIW, I fear the ground-up platform will be insufficiently interesting to drive adoption. If we looked Farley in the eye and asked: is T3 the very best truck you can buy from Ford, would the answer be an unequivocal yes? Does it have your best technology, your most innovative design, is it your most capable truck? Is it the best you have to offer and everything else is a compromise (maybe at a discount, but clearly second best)?

while you may be right, I have to admit I don’t agree with the unstated assumption underlying this take

I find unreasonable the assertion that any one vehicle is the all-around “best.” While that sort of thinking is certainly a common currency around here, I think it a widely held error in judgment.

If range and remote refueling infra is a person’s primary decision tree node, then no BEV is “the best.”

If instead bed volume and bed cargo flexibility is a person’s primary decision tree node, then no BEV is “best,” nor is the CyberTruck even “the best” among BEV trucks.

The list of these things is nearly infinite (as seen by people here who appear to care about “boat mode”), and while the list is shorter for common and reasonable features, it’s still a rather long and varied list.

For example, for the vast majority of people in the U.S., and an even greater majority planet-wide, the primary decision tree mode reduces down to price and affordability on a monthly cash flow basis.

So if you “looked Farley in they eye” and asked that exact question, as you’ve formulated it, I think he and onlookers would be justified to scoff and write it off.


And frankly, so too would Musk if you asked him about the Cybertruck, and he was being honest.

And look, I get that people - maybe such as yourself - have some range of reasonable to unreasonable biases along the lines of “fundamentally, Ford is unable to make a compelling product.” Which is such an absolutist position that it would be a fools errand to attempt to have a discussion around it (and is often, around here, exactly a fool’s errand).

But yet, here I am, ~18mo into having a Lightning and loving it. I’ve driven 1/2 ton trucks for 30 years, mostly Ford (not by tribalist dogma, but by case-by-case preference decisions between then-available models). And, for my use cases and decision tree nodes, it’s the best pickup I’ve ever driven or owned, BEV or ICE.


In which case, for me, the notion that “there can be only one, the ‘unequivocal’ best,” sounds pretty … absurd?

Afterall, between a Lightning and a CyberTruck a decision tree node of quite a lot of importance was merely this: one existed whatsoever, while the other didn’t.

At the end of the day, an absolutist view like the one you seemed to describe has in ky view a singular outcome: that person has deluded themselves into thinking a singular all-round ‘best’ exists, then further deluded themselves into thinking they are capable of surveying the customer-apparent landscape and picking out which one it is.

 

[Regenshire]

I test drove an F150L XLT the night of the Cybertruck reveal to get some perspective.

My honest opinion is that it is a nice vehicle.

Here are the things I like about the F150L:

• Comfortable Cabin - It is huge, you have a ton of personal room in the cabin, both the front and back seat. This also translates to a lot of storage in the backseat with the seats folded. The cabin is comfortable, its relatively quite.
• The Frunk - The frunk on the F150L is great. Its large, has power outlets, and auto-opens.
• It has the acceleration of an EV.
• Good visibility - This one was a bit shocking for me, but the visibility in the F150L was really good, especially the side and back windows. You could see a lot out of the back window.
• High off the ground - It is high up, you feel like you have a view of everything while are driving.
• Price (on the XLT and Pro models) - The Price on the XLT 240 mile range variant is very very attractive. You can get it for mid 50s before tax incentives.

Here are the things I didn't love about an F150L compared to my experience with Tesla and expectations of the Cybertruck.

• Charging Network - This is my #1 concern about owning an F150L at this time (could be addressed as early as spring), having to deal with myriad charging networks of different reliability. Yes, I know there is Magic Dock at select Tesla charging stations, and yes I know the adapters will be arriving in Spring 2024. We still don't know how that will all work, what charging speeds will be like on the lightning over the adapters, ect. This might not be an issue soon though.
• Driving Dynamics - The driving dynamics are not bad at all, but it very much feels like a Truck. It has that much looser feel to it vs a car. To a degree that is to be expected in a Truck generally, but I think this will be something that feels very different in the Cybertruck, even though it is also a decently large vehicle. I expect the Cybertruck to feel much tighter and have driving dynamics like a Tesla. I really like how a Tesla feels on the road.
• Parking - Its a large truck, and this is one of the downsides. I think the Cybertruck will also not be the easiest thing to park, but with drive-by-wire and rear wheel steering it in theory will be better once you get used to the site lines at least.
• Software - Ugh... I hate the software. This is one place that Tesla has over most of its competitors. I really enjoy the Tesla software stack way more then the chimera that is most legacy automakers software.
• Warranty is a little worse then a Tesla's at 3yr Bumper to Bumper, 5 year powertrain. This one is pretty minor, but is something I noticed.
• Optioned Price - To get similiar features to the Cybertruck, you need to get a Lariat with options, putting you very close to the price of the AWD Cybertruck.

All in all, its a great vehicle, but I still don't want it more then a Cybertruck.

 

[pricedm]

I drove an R1S (early on), and didn't like it at all. It drove like a truck in a bad sense of it from the suspension point of view. Very bouncy in the back seat. They say the R1T drives better. They also say that the R1S ride quality has been somewhat improved, but people still report bouncy ride in the back seat. It was to the point that I would not feel comfortable on a long road trip. For $86,000 (without options), I think the ride quality is crap.

It's too bad this is common feedback from R1S owners and prospective owners. R1S is the only SUV EV capable of offroad. Well....Cybertruck isn't a typical pickup, so I expect--contrary to RJ's statements--there will be significantly more than "not many" cross shoppers between Rivian R1S and Cybertruck.

 

[rbrak29]

Have an early CT reservation 11277xxxx, but live in ND so delivery will probably be late summer at the earliest. Winter in Tucson and after the CT launch that left me a bit underwhelmed (I tow a small Airstream), I looked on Turo for a Lightning to rent. Rivian is out as I need a bigger bed. As a first attempt at an EV truck, Ford did an outstanding job while not alienating F150 ICE owners. I was a Chevy owner for years until I bought a F150 Powerboost over 2 years ago. While not a BEV, the Powerboost can get me 30% pure electric on intown driving in Tucson, but I digress.

The Turo host for the Lightning let me tow my Airstream Basecamp 16X and do a small range test. Note: the Lightning did not have a tonneau cover. Lightning: 2.4 miles/kWh (320mi on 131kW battery). 140 miles traveled with trailer, full FW tank and waste tank, ? total weight (Basecamp 16X has 3500# GVWR), flat highway, 75 degree temp, little wind, 63mph. Results: 1.6 mi/kWh.

CT 340mi on 123kW battery = 2.76mi/kWh efficiency vs 2.4 for the Lightning not towing.
Silverado RST EV (also have early reservation) 400mi on 200 kW battery = 2.0 mi/Kwh
Lower efficiency, but bigger battery.

Want an EV truck to haul my Basecamp to Tucson (ND to AZ and back), west coast twice a year (ND to OR or WA and back). SC's all the way through ND west, other chargers... an EV dead zone west of Bismarck to Billings. Will be charging at RV campground along the way.

Question to the group:
1. Wait until someone has at least 500 mi range (Note: This snowbird is not getting any younger)
2. Buy Lightning and hope SC's become available soon or EA gets it together (Ford has free 3 year EA charging)
3. Wait for Silverado RST (just got an e-mail saying be prepared to order in early 2024)
4. Order the CT (AWD)

 

[CyberDude510]

I have driven both Lightning and Rivan R1T + R1S.
Rivian is much nicer and drives better. Lightning drove fine but overall is just your run of the mill F150 that is electric and the software/app is not good.

 

[sirozha]

It's too bad this is common feedback from R1S owners and prospective owners. R1S is the only SUV EV capable of offroad. Well....Cybertruck isn't a typical pickup, so I expect--contrary to RJ's statements--there will be significantly more than "not many" cross shoppers between Rivian R1S and Cybertruck.

I am getting the CyberTruck as an SUV, not as a truck.

 

[Regenshire]

We have heard why some are not considering Lightnings or Rivians.

For those of your who OWN a Lighting or a Rivian, why are you still interested in a Cybertruck? What about it do you feel compelling versus your current EV truck?

What excites you about it?

To me, this is more interesting then those of us who have no real world experience with those trucks. Why do you still want a Cybertruck now that we no longer have the high-value to stat proposition that we had from the original reveal?

 

[BayouCityBob]

I am getting the CyberTruck as an SUV, not as a truck.

I think the ride quality has improved significantly with the latest update on the R1S. I have not ever been a passenger in the back seat so I cannot speak to that, but as a driver I think it has gotten a big improvement. That said, I am expecting a better, quieter ride quality with the CT and like you, I am using it as an SUV and a direct substitute for the R1S. OTOH I think R1S is mostly a LandRover competitor, and like the person buying mine, is aimed at UMC families with kids and dogs (all the more reason to improve the ride). The CT is not pretty enough for that demographic (the "Go Ugly Early" EV).

 

[Keeney]

We have heard why some are not considering Lightnings or Rivians.

For those of your who OWN a Lighting or a Rivian, why are you still interested in a Cybertruck? What about it do you feel compelling versus your current EV truck?

What excites you about it?

To me, this is more interesting then those of us who have no real world experience with those trucks. Why do you still want a Cybertruck now that we no longer have the high-value to stat proposition that we had from the original reveal?

Bought the F150L to hold me over while waiting for the CT that I was very excited based on the intro 4 years ago. But the F150L has far exceeded my expectations and is the best truck for me that I have ever owned. And the CT came out with lower specs and higher price. No $50k AWD model with 3500lb payload. So its going to be a high bar to switch horses at this point.

But theF150L is of course not perfect. There are some areas of opportunity, and to the extent the CT can fulfill those, I might still be interested.
- The payload and bed on the F150L Pro are 2200 lbs in a 5.5' box. Going down from a Chevy 2500 with the 6' 8" bed and around 3800 lbs payload, the cargo capabilities are something I sometimes miss. Not a deal breaker, but an annoyance to have to get out the utility trailer when i need to haul heavier or larger stuff. I lobbied hard for them to make the CT bed larger and was excited about the 3500 lb payload. Will have to see if ithe CT bed is really bigger in a practical way. Kind of thinking its not a huge improvement over the F150L 5.5 box.
- The range for towing is sometimes limiting with my F150L SR. I would be interested to upgrade to a truck with a bigger battery for occasional longer distance towing. Again, not a deal breaker as this is an occasional need. Can plan around it by making sure the truck is fully charged the day before, or stopping at a fast chargers.
-As a new EV owner, the availability of fast charging network was a concern. Drove the truck home from an out of state dealer, and while there were some chargers with malfunctioning card readers, didn't relly experience any difficulty on that one and only road trip. I would perhaps have taken a couple of more road trips in the F50L over the past year if it had better charging network. But again, this is an occasional need, and I have other vehicles that can fulfill that. If the Tesla Supercharger deal comes through, this concern may be eliminated.
- The Ford app software sucks. But doesn't really matter that much for me,. The in-truck software is OK. Could be better. They have updated it quite a bit over the year and fixed a lot of the defects.

Some things I already know would be a downgrade, barriers, or concerns to moving to the CT:
- The F150L interior is huge. And you sit fully upright. Like all traditional full sized trucks. One of the reasons big guys like me love full sized trucks even for simple commute. Afraid the CT will feel cramped. Wiil have to drive one to make a decision.
- The CT appears to have horrible rear visibility. For backing into and out of parking situations that is going to be annoying. From experience with other vehicles with poor rear visibility, there are limitations to camera systems. They get dirty, sun flare, rain, snow, etc.
- I Like the knobs, stalks, traditional controls in the F150L. Especially actually prefer the setup with the smaller screen in the Pro. as compared to Lariat or Platinum. Controlling things via touch screen while driving is not the best interface. Not a deal killer, and I have not owned a Tesla, so not so sure how annoying this would be, but I would want to explore this aspect more before jumping in.
- Local Dealers. Unlike others, i actually find value in local dealers. The ability to test drive a vehicle, or get parts, or have service done, or actually talk to somebody on the phone who can track down an actual answer is useful to me. Saves me time. Yes, there are lots of negatives with bad dealers. And yes, they can waste your time during the traditional sales process. But easy enough to take the positives and avoid the negatives.
- The stainless. Love the idea in regards to durability of the bed and perhaps imperviousness to door dings. But it will always look dirty and have fingerprints. I wash my vehicles like once a year. I need a plain white truck that shows the least amount of dirt.
- Elon Musk. (politics, so will stop there).
- $34,000 more for the CT AWD as compared to what I paid for my F150L Pro. (Not considering what i might lose on the F150L). I don't need power leather seats or other "premium' interior like 15 speakers, etc. Too bad there is not an entry level CT still with AWD.

 

[wanders]

Battery is actually larger capacity (less aerodynamic shape is less efficient, but for towing you always need more battery)

This is the only thing that really stood out to me tbh. Bigger battery would indeed help with towing where aero wouldn't be that important. That said, I don't plan to do a lot of towing.

However two of my top interests in the CT aren't mentioned: safety ratings and FSD.

 

[PilotPete]

to be fair, Tesla SC network cannot be accessed TODAY by more than a handful of Cybertrucks

While true, I was referring to the brand more than the model. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

 

[cyberboi]

Wondering how many Tesla owners and prospective CyberTruck buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

So much of the hype for the CyberTruck strikes me as general hype for EVs without any consideration that not every EV is a Tesla. People seem to overlook that the Lightning and Rivian ARE EVs. The have super smooth, silent, rapid acceleration. They charge at home. They drive effortlessly in traffic. They have 300+ mile range.

Had a Tesla owner in my F150L the other day and they were amazed that the F150L actually drives like an EV. They assumed it would be more ICE like because its built by Ford and shaped the same as the ICE version?

1. Don't like the styling.
2. Can't use supercharger network.

 

[fhteagle]

the Powerboost can get me 30% pure electric

The Powerboost is a non-plug in hybrid, correct? If so, this statement is categorically false. Yes, it can generate and put some energy in the battery, but the only original power source is gasoline. At 1220+ gCO2e/kWh _at_best_, but probably worse. This is ~30% more emissions than the worst emissions in any local electric grid in the US.

I'm not trying to powertrain shame you, I'm sure the hybrid works great for your use case, and I still have an EREV and an ICE myself. But a phrase like "pure electric" in a non plug-in hybrid is deceptive to yourself and others.