How many CyberTruck prospective buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

[Keeney]

Is that right? Other than the looks of course. So what's compelling about it compared to the CT?

All new frame, and suspension.
Not at all the same "body" as the F150.
New more aero bed, hood, grill, lights, frunk, front bumper, active air dam, wheels.
Its faster than the CT AWD
Its lighter than the CT (except the Platinum trim).
Larger interior, rear seating area, and frunk than the CT.
Wider bed (slightly shorter at the bottom, but longer at the top).
All-aluminum, rust-free skin.
Battery is actually larger capacity (less aerodynamic shape is less efficient, but for towing you always need more battery)
Cheaper configurations as low as $50k for a 2 motor (no 1-motor RWD Ford).
Comparable-price configurations like Lariat have more goodies than the CT AWD.
Its got turn signal stalks, shifter, buttons, knobs.
Additional 12" instrument panel screen.
Rear visibility is loads better. Even with the CT bed cover open.
Spare tire and wheel.
Easy to use regen integrated with normal brake peddle (or one peddle mode if you prefer).
3rd party truck accessories mostly all fit. No paying $2500 for a tent.
You could have been driving one for the past 18 months and maybe another year before you can get a CT.

 

[Crissa]

Curious what drives "don't want an F150"? Just want it to look different? New? Or is there some functional difference between the CT and the F150 that is a non-starter (beside the mentioned CCS fast charging, charging speed and Ford dealers)? The specs on the F150L Lariat and CT AWD are neck and neck...

The Lightning brings forward the worst things about modern truck design - poor sight lines, tall, too many knobs and confusing marketing packages - to a second-gen EV while you have third-gen EVs out in the world (mostly Tesla).

The Cybertruck, for instance, tries its best to solve the sight-line issues, it packs more cargo dimensions in a smaller footprint, it changes height - like the Rivian - to avoid taking that hit unless you need it, and it's a third gen EV without the weird packages limiting functionality semi-randomly.

-Crissa

I havent tried the F150L but I have tried the R1T. One thing i noticed about the R1T was that when you go to floor it, it almost takes like a second to think about it before it explodes with power. That was a bit of a turn off for me but otherwise an awesome truck.

PS, this is usually a safety choice to smooth out user input. They can be really shaky with the wrong user. It just seems slow because you're not hearing a roar and then that oomph is more... It's usually faster to actually respond than an ICE. I dunno about the Rivian specifically tho.

I don't like Apple products. I don't like the way they lock you out of much of the OS that I'd like to reconfigure. Android gives me that option.

You haven't tried Android lately, I see...

Also, you can reconfigure alot in macOS, you just have to get your hands dirty.

 

[ÆCIII]

Bloated wasteful MSM advertising, third party dealership networks, and unions are three major reasons the business model of Ford will not give me the vehicle substance that Tesla will. Seriously, what motivation will Ford have to improve and innovate for the customer if they're already selling at negative margins largely in part due to the above financial baggage?

Rivians don't have a cohesive style to me at all, especially with the Dyson Fan headlight bezels. The only thing I do like about the Rivians is the interior and screen layouts a little, but that's not enough to offset the other things I don't like. I'm also hearing the Cybertruck tonneau cover works much better than the Rivian's.

Tesla hasn't given me a reason to try another brand. I had already put up with those other brands for decades and so I know what they're about. It was the other brands that gave me plenty of reasons to try something like Tesla, and now I'm not going back.

- ÆCIII

 

[CyberMoose]

10,000 CCS Fast Charger in the US.
15,000 more tesla Supercharges coming available early in 2024, long before you will likely get a CyberTruck.
37 Tesla Supercharger sites you can already use with CCS EVs right now.
CT drive train is not so much more efficient as the truck is just smaller and more aerodynamic. Mostly due to the sloped back and bed cover.

I'll first say that Cybertruck is my dream vehicle, mostly because of the super tough body, the super minimalistic interior, and the fact that I can upgrade the hardware in the future instead of buying a new vehicle.

However, if the Cybertruck didn't exist, the only reason I would buy outside of Tesla is still because of Tesla's supercharger network, since they are becoming more and more available to other makes.

I know some people with other electric vehicles and third party chargers sound like a nightmare when I hear about them. A friend of mine was coming to visit me last year and when they were a couple hours away and charging up one last time before the last part of their trip, I thought I could expect them in a few hours (only a two hour drive). I seen them like 5 hours later because charging took them like 3 hours at a fast charger because it didn't charge while they were getting lunch, then charged for a little bit, then got limited down to super slow speeds, and then eventually they had enough to just barely reach my house and then plugged in when they got here. They told me that was normal....I can't live with that being normal.

 

[cvalue13]

A Tesla can access the SC network, natively, TODAY, not it a year, NOW.

to be fair, Tesla SC network cannot be accessed TODAY by more than a handful of Cybertrucks

 

[cvalue13]

We make a "high voltage connection to the penthouse" everytime we SuperCharge. An electric gladhands connection isn't out of the question. I can see that the initial install on the early models that don't have the connection outlet factory installed may be a Service Center install, but Elon (or was it Drew) said that the Range Extender is for "long trips and towing up mountains" in a way that hinted it could be for intermittent instances. Although for my use case I'd purchase the Range Extender outright, I think it would be a better use of resources for them to be rentable on daily, or maybe weekly periods.

As for cooling, it may very well be air cooled with resistive heat to get it up to charging temps in the winter. Being a "range extender" and not a "performance enhancer" might mean that it doesn't have huge power transfer ability (akin to Powerwalls, 5kW) I think it will merely shunt power to the main battery at rates like a Level 2 charger would. If it can take any regen power it probably only accepts the small overcurrent that the main battery in incapable of when it's near fully charged or during extreme regen situations. In today's Sandy Munro interview one of the techs mentioned enhanced regen when towing to minimize trailer braking as much as possible.

One thing about the picture on the Tesla website is that there's a line that could be a shadow on the thickness edge. It looks like it may not rest completely on the bed floor. Like some tool boxes that have space underneath to allow 4-5 sheets of plywood underneath. THAT would be huge bonus for folks who think it makes the bed practically useless.

Comparing the raw photo with one that bumps up the contrast shows there's clearly an intentional line in the blackness. ?

I think between us we’ve covered the range (no pun intended) of pessimist to optimist views

except I’d add one other flourish of pessimism: it may be this accessory design isn’t actually finalized, and deliveries of one could be a long way out.

FWIW, Rivian has a patent on a similar design

The patent is described as:

An electric vehicle system for transporting human passengers or cargo includes an electric vehicle that includes a body, a plurality of wheels, a cargo area, an electric motor for propelling the electric vehicle, and a primary battery for providing electrical power to the electric motor for propelling the electric vehicle. An auxiliary battery module is attachable to the electric vehicle for providing electrical power to the electric motor via a first electrical connector at the auxiliary battery module and a second electrical connector at the electric vehicle that mates with the first electrical connector. The auxiliary battery module can be positioned in the cargo area while supplying power to the electric motor, and can be removable and reattachable from the electric vehicle. The auxiliary battery module includes an integrated cooling system for cooling itself during operation of the electric vehicle including a conduit therein for circulating coolant.

 

[CyberCowboy]

Wondering how many Tesla owners and prospective CyberTruck buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

So much of the hype for the CyberTruck strikes me as general hype for EVs without any consideration that not every EV is a Tesla. People seem to overlook that the Lightning and Rivian ARE EVs. The have super smooth, silent, rapid acceleration. They charge at home. They drive effortlessly in traffic. They have 300+ mile range.

Had a Tesla owner in my F150L the other day and they were amazed that the F150L actually drives like an EV. They assumed it would be more ICE like because its built by Ford and shaped the same as the ICE version?

I have driven both. I fell in love with the Cybertruck's design from the first day I saw it. Maybe it's just my personal perspective/belief, but I remain firmly convinced that no manufacturer has the infrastructure (that's a fact actually) or the software prowess of the Tesla engineers. Battery tech? I believe Tesla has an edge but I'll concede that even if this were not the case, the other two factors are insurmountable in my opinion...

 

[Art138]

I image for a lot of folks the novelty of owning something different….in many cases a toy. I have never owned a truck, but the allure and excitement of a non traditional EV sets the CT apart. I look at the Beast as a semi sports car. Which other truck gets you to 60mph in 2.6 secs.

 

[pricedm]

Drove a Rivian R1T from the Denver, CO service center (1 mile from my house) and own enough stock to buy a few. Nice truck but it aint a Cybertruck! I have a binding sales agreement so would be able to take advantge of $7,500 Federal tax credit regardless if price >$80k. That said, I expect to cancel 2024 Q1 and get my $1,000 deposit back....and apply towards Cybertruck purchase.

 

[w24i7ll365y]

I do not know. I suspect that there are a lot of reasons that differ for different people. But the data are just relentless and overwhelming and not just for the F150. People do not buy electrified ICE models. Not the Niro. Not the Focus. Not the F150. I know for me personally wrt the F150, but I do not know for others. It remains to be seen if the Silverado is different and distinctive enough to sell in decent numbers.

May I add the current mini cooper e with its 110summer/80winter range.

 

[sirozha]

Drove a Rivian R1T from the Denver, CO service center (1 mile from my house) and own enough stock to buy a few. Nice truck but it aint a Cybertruck! I have a binding sales agreement so would be able to take advantge of $7,500 Federal tax credit regardless if price >$80k. That said, I expect to cancel 2024 Q1 and get my $1,000 deposit back....and apply towards Cybertruck purchase.

You'll only get $900 back, since you have a binding agreement. I have one too.

 

[sirozha]

I drove an R1S (early on), and didn't like it at all. It drove like a truck in a bad sense of it from the suspension point of view. Very bouncy in the back seat. They say the R1T drives better. They also say that the R1S ride quality has been somewhat improved, but people still report bouncy ride in the back seat. It was to the point that I would not feel comfortable on a long road trip. For $86,000 (without options), I think the ride quality is crap.

 

[Michael Dobbs]

I've considered Rivian and Lightning. My CT deposit was to pull my retirement travel trailer, and the CT delay is eating into my leisure plans. But, my wife had to put off retirement to train her replacement (such a loyal worker) so it gives me a little time to finally decide. My urge to stick with Tesla is ~95% based on sticking with a reliable Fast Charging network. Had NACS been adopted by Rivian or Ford and all SuperChargers opened up to their vehicles already, I'd likely have made the jump already. Trying to go full time EV RVing I need both range while towing and the most options for charging.

Aside from the price, I am delighted at the Range Extender option. It's a flexibility that I was politicking for since way back. If it's a pack that can be removed when you don't need it (?) it will be the ideal solution. I'm trying to think of a way to install a jib crane in the corner of the bed to offload the battery pack to remain at the RV for boondocking or just to shed weight and bed obstruction while day tripping in the truck away from basecamp.

It’s hard to overstate the superior Supercharging infrastructure. That and the vehicle user interface between Tesla and everyone else. No comparison in my opinion?

 

[Rutrow]

Weak sauce

In my home growing up, tomato soup was spaghetti sauce. I'm used to weak sauce

 

[BayouCityBob]

Worth reminding, too, that the Lightning was just Ford’s stop-gap chimera offering before rolling out the T3 ground-up platform (@BayouCityBob)

I worry that interest rates will have an unnatural impact on BEV adoption at a critical point in the transition history. Zero interest environment was the converse.

FWIW, I fear the ground-up platform will be insufficiently interesting to drive adoption. If we looked Farley in the eye and asked: is T3 the very best truck you can buy from Ford, would the answer be an unequivocal yes? Does it have your best technology, your most innovative design, is it your most capable truck? Is it the best you have to offer and everything else is a compromise (maybe at a discount, but clearly second best)?

Ford may be objectively better at building full-sized trucks than anyone except maybe GM (+/-), but Tesla and the EV pure plays pour everything they've got (and some things that are not quite there yet) into every new model. They leave nothing in reserve and it shows. When Ford is ready to say about its EV truck, this is the best truck you can buy from us period, they will be in the game. You want the best and baddest Mustang? Buy what, a dark horse coyote? Want the best F150? Buy a Limited or for top level performance buy a Raptor? You want "the best vehicle we have ever produced" from Tesla, buy a Cybertruck.

I know I am speaking in generalities and not specifics, but the specifics have been done to death and there are puts and takes. What I want to offer is a perspective that legacy is still not all-in on EVs and it shows in myriad ways. And almost nobody will pay a significant premium for a second-best model from a manufacturer just because it runs on batteries. My 2c