Tesla and SpaceX Reputations Plummet in Major Poll

[ThatGuyBo]

19:02
example of the fraud uh that you have
19:05
cited was $50 million of condoms was
19:08
sent to Gaza but after fact check this
19:12
it apparently Gaza in Mozambique and the
19:15
program was to protect them against HIV
19:18
so can you correct the statements it
19:20
wasn't sent to Hamas actually it was
19:22
sent to Moz which makes sense why
19:24
condoms was sent there and how can make
19:26
we make sure that all the statements
19:28
that you said were uh correct so we can
19:31
trust what you're say well first of all
19:32
uh some of the things that I say will be
19:34
incorrect and and should be corrected so
19:37
nobody's going to bat a thousand I mean
19:39
any you know we will make mistakes but
19:41
we'll act quickly to correct any
19:42
mistakes um so uh you know if if the I'm
19:47
not sure we should be sending $50
19:48
million with the condoms to anywhere uh
19:50
frankly I'm not sure that's something
19:52
Americans would be really excited about
19:54
um and that that is really an enormous
19:56
number of condoms you think about it um
19:58
but uh you know if if it went to Mozambique
20:01
instead of Gaza I'm like okay that's not
20:02
as bad but still you know why are we
20:04
doing


You guys are calling a small mistake: naming-the-wrong-country an actual lie?!

YOU GUYS ARE UTTERLY F***** DELUSIONAL. ??????????????

I've said my peace here. I'm fine with the comment section reflecting exactly what it needs to.

You didn't address anything again.
He doesn't even know where it went, how much it was, and why it went. He is acknowledging that in the quotes you highlighted.
You couldn't provide one source of your own or figure out where one statement ends and another begins.

lol you are soft.

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[REM]

https://web.archive.org/web/20160722130647/https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux

Autonomy

As the technology matures, all Tesla vehicles will have the hardware necessary to be fully self-driving with fail-operational capability, meaning that any given system in the car could break and your car will still drive itself safely. It is important to emphasize that refinement and validation of the software will take much longer than putting in place the cameras, radar, sonar and computing hardware.

Even once the software is highly refined and far better than the average human driver, there will still be a significant time gap, varying widely by jurisdiction, before true self-driving is approved by regulators. We expect that worldwide regulatory approval will require something on the order of 6 billion miles (10 billion km). Current fleet learning is happening at just over 3 million miles (5 million km) per day.

I should add a note here to explain why Tesla is deploying partial autonomy now, rather than waiting until some point in the future. The most important reason is that, when used correctly, it is already significantly safer than a person driving by themselves and it would therefore be morally reprehensible to delay release simply for fear of bad press or some mercantile calculation of legal liability.

According to the recently released 2015 NHTSA report, automotive fatalities increased by 8% to one death every 89 million miles. Autopilot miles will soon exceed twice that number and the system gets better every day. It would no more make sense to disable Tesla's Autopilot, as some have called for, than it would to disable autopilot in aircraft, after which our system is named.

It is also important to explain why we refer to Autopilot as "beta". This is not beta software in any normal sense of the word. Every release goes through extensive internal validation before it reaches any customers. It is called beta in order to decrease complacency and indicate that it will continue to improve (Autopilot is always off by default). Once we get to the point where Autopilot is approximately 10 times safer than the US vehicle average, the beta label will be removed.

Did you even read what you linked?!

What the f*** from the above paragraph constitutes a shred of a promise of anything?! At this point you guys are just trolling me.

Absolutely no other explanation.

 

[REM]

You didn't address anything again.
He doesn't even know where it went, how much it was, and why it went. He is acknowledging that in the quotes you highlighted.
You couldn't provide one source of your own or figure out where one statement ends and another begins.

lol you are soft.

you're a liar.

Moving along.

 

[ThatGuyBo]

Did you even read what you linked?!

What the f*** from the above paragraph constitutes a shred of a promise of anything?! At this point you guys are just trolling me.

Absolutely no other explanation.

Did I claim it did? Did I use this as a reference?
No.
I didn't claim it did.

I simply provided the link for you because you clearly cannot figure anything out. lol

You might need to chill out a bit, getting a little emotional

 

[ThatGuyBo]

you're a liar.

Moving alone.

Point out my lie.
Do it?

You won't because you can't, as seen in this entire thread. lol
You can't even argue in good faith, you redirect, attack, blame, and lie all while accusing others of doing those same things.

Instead of highlighting quotes backing up my assertions, form your own sentences, provide your own references, and maybe stop being so emotional. Try to think clearly.

 

[REM]

Point out my lie.
Do it?

You won't because you can't, as seen in this entire thread. lol
You can't even argue in good faith, you redirect, attack, blame, and lie all while accusing others of doing those same things.

Instead of highlighting quotes backing up my assertions, form your own sentences, provide your own references, and maybe stop being so emotional. Try to think clearly.

I have literally taken the time to highlight where you are wrong. No-one promised you anything. End of story.

Good day.

 

[eswimm]

I think Elon has definitely done some brand damage, but I think it will fade over time. Consumers tend be fickle and I think the politics will slowly be forgotten and we'll be back to some of the best EVs currently selling. Yes, other manufacturers are releasing some good EVs, but Tesla still has a sizeable lead on most of them.

I don't think I'd ever refer to Elon as a trusted partner, he's always had some really lofty ideas that eventually get most of the way there. I do think it's strange that people claim Elon "promised this or that". I've drooled over many concept cars over the decades and they usually change dramatically by the time they hit the market.

Tesla is the only brand of vehicle I've owned where they actually sold upgrades and released new functionality. Being able to upgrade my Model X from MCU 1 to MCU 2, AP2 to HW3/upgraded cameras would be unheard of with other brands. BMW won't even sell you an upgraded head unit that's literally plug and play in the same model. They shut the connectivity off in my 2015 BMW i8 because it was 3G, with no option to upgrade to the 4G/LTE modems used in newer builds.

I work in sales and literally every presentation I give starts with a disclaimer discussing product futures. You're buying what exists today when you buy it. There are plans and roadmaps but plans sometimes change. If there's a feature you absolutely must have, then you either need a contract that guarantees delivery with appropriate penalties (you'll never get that as a consumer of a mass market vehicle) or you wait until what you want is available before you buy.

 

[dalton108]

I think Elon has definitely done some brand damage, but I think it will fade over time. Consumers tend be fickle and I think the politics will slowly be forgotten and we'll be back to some of the best EVs currently selling. Yes, other manufacturers are releasing some good EVs, but Tesla still has a sizeable lead on most of them.

I don't think I'd ever refer to Elon as a trusted partner, he's always had some really lofty ideas that eventually get most of the way there. I do think it's strange that people claim Elon "promised this or that". I've drooled over many concept cars over the decades and they usually change dramatically by the time they hit the market.

Tesla is the only brand of vehicle I've owned where they actually sold upgrades and released new functionality. Being able to upgrade my Model X from MCU 1 to MCU 2, AP2 to HW3/upgraded cameras would be unheard of with other brands. BMW won't even sell you an upgraded head unit that's literally plug and play in the same model. They shut the connectivity off in my 2015 BMW i8 because it was 3G, with no option to upgrade to the 4G/LTE modems used in newer builds.

I work in sales and literally every presentation I give starts with a disclaimer discussing product futures. You're buying what exists today when you buy it. There are plans and roadmaps but plans sometimes change. If there's a feature you absolutely must have, then you either need a contract that guarantees delivery with appropriate penalties (you'll never get that as a consumer of a mass market vehicle) or you wait until what you want is available before you buy.

This does not accurately describe how concept cars work. No one has ever made a promise to deliver you a “concept car” it’s literally offered to you as a concept. “Here’s what we’re thinking about for the future. This is going to be our design language going forward.”

Rolling a prototype out on stage to solicit your purchase and putting up specs to entice you pre-ordering is not the same thing as showing you a concept car which doesn’t usually come with any ability to pre-order because that’s not what the interaction is about.

Slate has made a bunch of promises about what they’re going to deliver in their $20,000 truck. If they fail to deliver on that, in my mother tongue [which is English] we would say, “they didn’t keep their promise.” Nothing about the syntax of that statement changes because Elon Musk becomes the subject of that predicate. ?

If somebody offers to sell you a range extender and takes your money for a range extender and then fails to deliver said range extender and then has to notify you and give you your money back, that’s what we call, in English, a “broken promise.”

Some of you keep conflating a legally binding promise (also known as a “contract”) with a simple “promise.” They are not the same; and one not rising to the level of a legally binding promise doesn’t mean that a “promise” wasn’t made.

I feel like a lot of you haven’t interacted with women or children before— where when you tell them you’re going to do something they bloody well expect you to do it and will hold you to it.

What kind of human experience are you having where the people in your life (family, customers, clients, employees) don’t call it a “promise” when you say you’re going to do something?????!!!!! Do you think everybody was born yesterday and can’t see right through this charade ?

Like, you REALLY want me to believe that you don’t know what the word “promise” means? Weird! I mean I’ll do it but once I put you on the slow bus in my head that’s where you stay. You don’t get to get off.

The instinct to constantly make absurd excuses for this guy/company is stupefying. As was asked earlier in a different context; how much does that pay?

 

[ThatGuyBo]

I have literally taken the time to highlight where you are wrong. No-one promised you anything. End of story.

Good day.

Highlighting sentences that do not alter nor expand upon what previous sentences stated is what you did. That’s all you did. That would be considered what is known as a strawman fallacy, something you called out another user for previously. Still don’t understand what that is? maybe don’t call people out for that if you don’t understand it.

I simply posted videos highlighting what was being discussed. I never claimed musk promised anything, but he did state more than once very clearly that FSD feature complete would be on HW3.

You weren’t capable of addressing my claims head on. It’s that simple.

Keep hiding, avoiding, and dodging.



edit:
Also, because, again, you cannot do anything for yourself include read:

You have shown you lack the ability to read or comprehend what you read. In the USAID spending document linked, it outlined that the spending was only $8mil worldwide on condoms and only a portion of that was spent in that “wrong country” you are now hiding behind. It wasn’t just condoms. You fell for false information, full stop.

Crying for facts, not providing them when asked, and then not being able to read them is pretty pathetic.

 

[BannedByTMC]

I think Elon has definitely done some brand damage, but I think it will fade over time. Consumers tend be fickle and I think the politics will slowly be forgotten and we'll be back to some of the best EVs currently selling.

Except the lead is shrinking and Tesla isn't innovating the vehicles because Elon is really only focused on autonomy and Optimus. Tesla no longer leads on range or charging speeds, from what I've heard from former Tesla owners Lucid beats Tesla on luxury as well. Outside of the US Chinese OEMs are catching up quickly if not already there. There is no sign from Tesla that significant range or charging speed increases are coming anytime soon.

 

[eswimm]

Like, you REALLY want me to believe that you don’t know what the word “promise” means? Weird! I mean I’ll do it but once I put you on the slow bus in my head that’s where you stay. You don’t get to get off.

I know what a promise is, but I've never trusted a salesperson to make a promise without getting it in a contract. Politicians make hollow promises all of the time, I've never put any faith in them and I've certainly never trusted Elon's "promises" of features or timelines.

I've certainly made and received promises to/from people I know personally and have accountability to/from. I certainly don't consider a $100 or $1000 refundable reservation to be a promise.

Now, the range extender rug pull does rub me the wrong way. That was an option at order time, secured by a non-refundable deposit. It had stated specs, price and an availability date. That wasn't a concept, wasn't a goal, that was about as close to a promise as you can get.

 

[eswimm]

Except the lead is shrinking and Tesla isn't innovating the vehicles because Elon is really only focused on autonomy and Optimus. Tesla no longer leads on range or charging speeds, from what I've heard from former Tesla owners Lucid beats Tesla on luxury as well. Outside of the US Chinese OEMs are catching up quickly if not already there. There is no sign from Tesla that significant range or charging speed increases are coming anytime soon.

Maybe, we'll see. There are definitely some compelling alternatives, we'll see if Rivian and Lucid become the next Tesla or the next Fisker. It'll also be interesting to see how some of the volume players do in longevity and durability. My 2016 and 2018 Teslas were virtually trouble and maintenance free, if these other brands prove to be as reliable, then great.

 

[dalton108]

I know what a promise is, but I've never trusted a salesperson to make a promise without getting it in a contract. Politicians make hollow promises all of the time, I've never put any faith in them and I've certainly never trusted Elon's "promises" of features or timelines.

I've certainly made and received promises to/from people I know personally and have accountability to/from. I certainly don't consider a $100 or $1000 refundable reservation to be a promise.

Now, the range extender rug pull does rub me the wrong way. That was an option at order time, secured by a non-refundable deposit. It had stated specs, price and an availability date. That wasn't a concept, wasn't a goal, that was about as close to a promise as you can get.

I appreciate the response and appreciate more you not taking my comments as personally directed towards you. Because they were not.

Beyond that we have adjectives for a reason. If somebody makes you a promise that you don’t believe and/or they have no intention of keeping, that doesn’t mean that they didn’t make you a promise. That’s called an “empty promise,” and it’s a promise nonetheless.

You and I are wired differently. The fact that politicians lie doesn’t mean that I accept it. I expect them to do what they say they’re going to do. Because of my station in life and my work as a lobbyist I also have means to redress it if they don’t.

All of my personal and professional relationships are based on trust. I don’t tolerate lies or empty promises. I’m uncompromising.

You get one chance to burn me. There may or may not be consequences, but there won’t be repeats. That doesn’t change based on your profession or whether either the richest or poorest man in the world. My values are not malleable.

 

[REM]

I certainly don't consider a $100 or $1000 refundable reservation to be a promise.

Yep. Furthermore, people refuse to actually read purchase agreements.



Otherwise people would stop making the absurd "promises" argument.

 

[REM]

we'll see if Rivian and Lucid become the next Tesla or the next Fisker.

Lucid is absolutely hemorrhaging money.

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