Quantifying overnight ("phantom") drain

[EvilNuff]

...BTW, it's not hostile to correct someone spouting BS.

I have to disagree with you here, you can correct someone spouting BS in a hostile or a non-hostile manner. I know this well as I am often guilty of being on the hostile side when I do that...something I am working on.

 

[Outdoors]

Simply put, if 2 kWH is going to put you over your energy budget, then you better not charge your truck at home.
2 kWh is only 4 miles of driving. It's hard to believe that your driving habits are that tightly controlled, mine easily vary by 100 miles or more daily.

At a bare minimum, I'd expect at least have 35kWh available, as that represents 24 hours and 48 miles on 120V 15A.

But for most, charging is much better specified at about 70kWh per day, even then, that's only half of the battery.

It's REALLY HARD to plug the Cybertruck in and not blow through 2 kWh in less than 5 minutes.

I didn't read much of the crap you said, but:

No I just don't like to throw away things. I am explaining outside owning an EV. That is what I use per day. Maybe you don't understand things.

To throw away 8% of my energy daily budget. Again outside of the EV would be kind of dumb if I could avoid it. That is why I am happy Phantom drain has diminished. You don't get that. As you live in Georgia in your home and pay your power bill. Others choose to do something different.

Grid person = Thinks energy grows on trees.

Off grid person = It is all unlimited charging I just need to do a bit of math a couple times a year.

 

[Woodrick]

I didn't read much of the crap you said, but:

No I just don't like to throw away things. I am explaining outside owning an EV. That is what I use per day. Maybe you don't understand things.

To throw away 8% of my energy daily budget. Again outside of the EV would be kind of dumb if I could avoid it. That is why I am happy Phantom drain has diminished. You don't get that. As you live in Georgia in your home and pay your power bill. Others choose to do something different.

Grid person = Thinks energy grows on trees.

Off grid person = It is all unlimited charging I just need to do a bit of math a couple times a year.

You are on solar and batteries, unless you are grid intertied or have a super abundance of batteries or go through outages, throwing power away is a given.

If 2kWh is 8% of your budget, then I assume that your daily production is 25 kWh.
If you give all that power to the truck, that's only about 60 miles.

How do you expect to charge the truck and run the house on 25kWh daily?

Most folks who are solar charging their vehicle have larger than 20kW arrays, >100kWh daily production.

 

[Knucklehead]

You are on solar and batteries, unless you are grid intertied or have a super abundance of batteries or go through outages, throwing power away is a given.

If 2kWh is 8% of your budget, then I assume that your daily production is 25 kWh.
If you give all that power to the truck, that's only about 60 miles.

How do you expect to charge the truck and run the house on 25kWh daily?

Most folks who are solar charging their vehicle have larger than 20kW arrays, >100kWh daily production.

It appears we are not going to agree on this, or the need for longer range BEVs. That's OK. But vampire drain is a solvable situation.

The legacy car companies do not have vampire drain. The Rivian R1 Gen 1 has a vampire drain issue, that is supposed to be "fixed" with the Gen 2. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. There isn't enough data to confirm. The Lucid Air also has a vampire drain issue.

It is a problem when you have to park the car for a long period of time when it is not connected to a EVSE. Like at an airport. Or any place else you might need to park it. Why should I have to worry about whether or not my vehicle will be able to be driven just because it was parked for a long period of time?

And what if I had enough charge to make it home when I parked, but then when I come back to the vehicle, it no longer has enough range to make it home? Does that matter? It does to me. A lot.

There should be some sort of setting that reduces the vampire drain to zero for when people want zero vampire drain. If you don't care about it, then don't use the setting. It can't be done in the R1 Gen 1 or the Lucid, but can it be done in the CT? Sounds like it can't. That is a problem. IMO, of course.

 

[mongo]

The legacy car companies do not have vampire drain.

They do, it's at a low level, but part of the specification of every module. Features such as walk up unlock and OTA updates/ remote status check will necessarily use more power than vehicles that lack such features.

There should be some sort of setting that reduces the vampire drain to zero for when people want zero vampire drain. If you don't care about it, then don't use the setting. It can't be done in the R1 Gen 1 or the Lucid, but can it be done in the CT? Sounds like it can't. That is a problem. IMO, of course.

Recent software updates greatly improved parked power consumption. If you need long term storage in a location without power, this is as close to zero as it gets:
https://service.tesla.com/docs/Cybe...UID-A399E8AE-5DCF-4095-91FA-AF0148503F3B.html

 

[Outdoors]

You are on solar and batteries, unless you are grid intertied or have a super abundance of batteries or go through outages, throwing power away is a given.

If 2kWh is 8% of your budget, then I assume that your daily production is 25 kWh.
If you give all that power to the truck, that's only about 60 miles.

How do you expect to charge the truck and run the house on 25kWh daily?

Most folks who are solar charging their vehicle have larger than 20kW arrays, >100kWh daily production.

I can't type it again. Yet I will. If I didn't have an EV. To throw away 8% of anything is foolish. My EV isn't in the equation here to show an example of why many think waste is nothing to worry about. You are the target.

Get the readers out.

I use about 25 kwh per day outside the EV.

Drain is being solved by Tesla.

 

[Woodrick]

It appears we are not going to agree on this, or the need for longer range BEVs. That's OK. But vampire drain is a solvable situation.

The legacy car companies do not have vampire drain. The Rivian R1 Gen 1 has a vampire drain issue, that is supposed to be "fixed" with the Gen 2. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. There isn't enough data to confirm. The Lucid Air also has a vampire drain issue.

It is a problem when you have to park the car for a long period of time when it is not connected to a EVSE. Like at an airport. Or any place else you might need to park it. Why should I have to worry about whether or not my vehicle will be able to be driven just because it was parked for a long period of time?

And what if I had enough charge to make it home when I parked, but then when I come back to the vehicle, it no longer has enough range to make it home? Does that matter? It does to me. A lot.

There should be some sort of setting that reduces the vampire drain to zero for when people want zero vampire drain. If you don't care about it, then don't use the setting. It can't be done in the R1 Gen 1 or the Lucid, but can it be done in the CT? Sounds like it can't. That is a problem. IMO, of course.

Legacy cars do have phantom drain. No one makes a big deal about them. And if it wasn't for Sentry, people really wouldn't really worry about Teslas either. But people turn Sentry on when they fo to the airport for a week trip and then get freaked out when thy only have 20% when they get back.

Phantom drain is the drain that occurs as the electronics continue to run when the vehicle is off. Don't legacy vehicles have alarm systems always monitoring? Don't they have keyless fobs that require the vehicle to always be monitoring? Don't many have remote start systems and apps that talk to the vehicle?
It is VERY possible to leave a legacy vehicle sitting and come back to a dead battery.

 

[Woodrick]

I can't type it again. Yet I will. If I didn't have an EV. To throw away 8% of anything is foolish. My EV isn't in the equation here to show an example of why many think waste is nothing to worry about. You are the target.

Get the readers out.

I use about 25 kwh per day outside the EV.

Drain is being solved by Tesla.

I get it, I ask for details and it appears that you may not be completely telling the entire story, so you have to deflect.

 

[CyberGus]

I did not do anything to wake it up as opening the app now does not wake up the truck until you interact with it

Before the simple act of looking at the car or truck in the app started the wake up procedure. Finally years later the app fix was made.

When you check on your truck, you wake it up and that also uses energy.

Tesla continues to make improvements that reduce unnecessary power consumption.

 

[spamy42]

The phantom drain seems super high. In the Tesla app my truck has charged a total of 1769 kWh and I've driven 2385 miles. This means that lifetime energy/mile is 1769kWh/2385mi = 742Wh/mi. Seems high since I haven't towed anything. Let's look at the menu on the Tesla. It says I'm getting somewhere around 386Wh/mi while driving (this is from memory I'm not in my truck but it is something like this). This means for me 356Wh/mi has been given to the truck and then lost to the phantom. I've paid $312 for this energy. 7% superchargers the rest home charging. If I had a Ford F150 3.5 Liter EcoBoost it would have cost me about $413 in gas considering average price in my area about $3.46 cents and fuel economy of 20 mpg. So the effective fuel economy of ownership so far has been about 26.5mpg for my Cybertruck. But far better if you just consider driving...

Does anyone else have a similar experience?

 

[Woodrick]

The phantom drain seems super high. In the Tesla app my truck has charged a total of 1769 kWh and I've driven 2385 miles. This means that lifetime energy/mile is 1769kWh/2385mi = 742Wh/mi. Seems high since I haven't towed anything. Let's look at the menu on the Tesla. It says I'm getting somewhere around 386Wh/mi while driving (this is from memory I'm not in my truck but it is something like this). This means for me 356Wh/mi has been given to the truck and then lost to the phantom. I've paid $312 for this energy. 7% superchargers the rest home charging. If I had a Ford F150 3.5 Liter EcoBoost it would have cost me about $413 in gas considering average price in my area about $3.46 cents and fuel economy of 20 mpg. So the effective fuel economy of ownership so far has been about 26.5mpg for my Cybertruck. But far better if you just consider driving...

Does anyone else have a similar experience?

Have you ever opened the door and maybe left it open for a few minutes? That's usage that doesn't get attributed to mileage.
Do you have Sentry on? Same thing.
Cabin Overheat? Same thing.

Look at the Energy graph and see what it says.

 

[carsly]

Have you ever opened the door and maybe left it open for a few minutes? That's usage that doesn't get attributed to mileage.
Do you have Sentry on? Same thing.
Cabin Overheat? Same thing.

Look at the Energy graph and see what it says.

preconditioning to a charger is another.

Having the vehicle set to pre-heat/pre-cool, on a schedule or even via the app etc. will all, somewhat obviously, consume power that is not attributable to driving - but that's no different than an ICE vehicle where you'll get much worse mpg if you pre-heat/pre-cool.

Also the vehicle will consume some power during charging sessions so if you're charging at low amperage (16-24 amps) you'll likely lose more during a charging session as the vehicle has to stay awake longer vs charging at 32 or 48 amps.

 

[Crissa]

preconditioning to a charger is another.

Having the vehicle set to pre-heat/pre-cool, on a schedule or even via the app etc. will all, somewhat obviously, consume power that is not attributable to driving - but that's no different than an ICE vehicle where you'll get much worse mpg if you pre-heat/pre-cool.

Also the vehicle will consume some power during charging sessions so if you're charging at low amperage (16-24 amps) you'll likely lose more during a charging session as the vehicle has to stay awake longer vs charging at 32 or 48 amps.

But this can also be useful since you can use wall power instead of battery power. Which is why plugging in and setting a leave time is so useful.

Then losses won't matter (at least where you can plug in).

-Crissa

 

[Woodrick]

But this can also be useful since you can use wall power instead of battery power. Which is why plugging in and setting a leave time is so useful.

Then losses won't matter (at least where you can plug in).

-Crissa

No one said it wasn't. This was a sub-thread on what could be causing non-driving energy costs.

 

[Outdoors]

This was a sub-thread on what could be causing non-driving energy costs.

Nope. Just on quantifying it. Just like the title says. How much?