Cybertruck Towing Range

[Rthardison]

Has anyone considered Tesla is posting the towing range with a fully loaded trailer ? Tesla rated the semi with a 80,000 load. Thoughts? Would that be a game changer?

Yes it would be a game changer, but highly unlikely.

 

[ajdelange]

If by "highly unlikely" you mean probability 0 then fine. It would be physically impossible unless all the towing were down hill.

 

[Huntsman]

If we are going to have robotaxis available "by the end of next year at the latest" why not robotrailers? Load up the fridge, program it to go to the camp ground and send it on its way.

Tesla does not need the advertising but what would the Macy’s Thanksgiving parade look like with Cybertrucks pulling the floats? Would FSD work in a pedestrian filled environment as ”events” stop and go performing their show? ...Rose bowl and their Green theme might be more appropriate.

 

[ajdelange]

As robo taxis and/or robo trailers are the stuff of science fiction, they can do anything you want them to. Yes, I know there are some geofenced systems operating on experimental bases.

 

[Crissa]

Would FSD work in a pedestrian filled environment as ”events” stop and go performing their show?

That's just 'car ahead has moved alert'. It's no different than heavy city traffic. Systems much dumber than autopilot handle it fine... Like Subaru's or Mazda's.

Of course it would have to be programmed for the road being obscurred.

As robo taxis and/or robo trailers are the stuff of science fiction,
they can do anything you want them to.

These are systems that exist in retail models and have for the last several years.

Yes, I know there are some geofenced systems operating on experimental bases.

All systems except the dumbest ones are geofenced. Your GPS maps are probably geofenced from working on some military bases, some countries, etc.

-Crissa

 

[Lives2TruckAround]

The basic math is that the nominal range of a vehicle is the size of the "gas" tank divided by the amount of "gas" used to go 1 mile;

Rn = S/W

For the 3 motor CT W is estimated at .485 kWh/mi and, if that's correct, the size of the battery required for 500 mi nominal range is 242.5 kWh. If an extra load, such as a trailer, is involved, range is reduced to

R = S/(W + T)

where T is the energy required to pull the extra load 1 mile. Dividing numerator and denominator by W, the power required by the truck, we get

R = (S/W)/(1 + T/W) = Rn/( 1 + T/W)

Thus range is reduced by the factor (1 + T/W). W is easily obtained. It is the EPA rated energy consumption. If we also know T then it's easy to estimate the range. But we don't and the only recourse we have is to guess what T might be. In the case of a 10,000 pound trailer we observe that it certainly weighs more than the truck which we estimate will weigh between 6,000 and 7,000 pounds. From this it is certain that T > W, perhaps appreciably so. But let's start by assuming that T = W. For that most optimistic case we find R = Rn/2. The range is cut in half. If T is 10% greater than W then R = 48% of Rn and if T is 1.5*W then the range is only 40% of the range of the vehicle alone. Beyond this we can use more sophisticated techniques to try to estimate T such as by guessing at drag and rolling resistance for the trailer based on its dimensions and weight but one is really going out on a limb doing this.

Note that the formulas given above are independent to the type of vehicle and "gas". Thus you can expect that the range reduction you will see in your CT when towing the trailer will be, as a fraction, about the same as you observe through your gas mileage with the ICE truck you currently pull it with. IOW if your unburdened gas mileage is 15 mpg but drops to 7.5 mpg with the trailer you should expect to see about a 50% decrease in range with the CT too.

Ten thousand pounds is a big trailer for sure but you might get 200 mi from the trimotor CT when towing it under ideal conditions. If you are new to EVs you many not be aware of the sensitivity of Rn to things like grade, rain, snow, cold weather and winds. Thus 500 mi EPA rated range could turn into under 400 from nothing more than a rain shower or driving into a stiff breeze. Also keep in mind that we typically operate our BEVs between say 10% and 90% SoC such that the nominal practical range of the 500 mile CT would be 400 mi.

Wouoldn't you be able to finish the equation with another person who posted a study of gas to electric conversion testing? Saw something about it on YouTube

 

[ajdelange]

Well I by no means claim my model is perfect. Thousands and thousands of man hours have been spent on models and those of us who have done it for a living have a certain perspective on it which includes a fair amount of skepticism. I'll just comment that anyone that knows anything about it knows that one is often requested to "improve" the model until such time as it give the answer that the guy who is paying for it wants. I'll also tell a little story about what I saw on television one night. The weather forcast was for snow and the weather guy reported that we could expect between 2 and 21". The main talking head commented that this was quite a range at that as recently as a year previous we never got such a wide range of predictions. The weather guy's answer was that the station now had 9 models it was using.

 

[Diehard]

Since this thread started before battery day, I would like to ask, does anyone know the impact of the 4680 batteries on range and towing? I didn’t quite get what 5x energy means. Does it mean one battery has five times the energy? I doubt it. since the battery is five times larger, that would not be any accomplishment. If it means 5x energy density (one battery has around 25x energy of the old one), how much of it will go to cost cutting, how much to pulling power and range? What is everyone’s thoughts on how the cooling ability of new battery impact fast charging and towing up the mountain? In other words do you think specs was shared last year based on the expectation 4680 will be used or this will change anything for us? I am a bit new to the whole electrification business. Any education is greatly appreciated.

 

[Crissa]

Since this thread started before battery day, I would like to ask, does anyone know the impact of the 4680 batteries on range and towing? I didn’t quite get what 5x energy means.

It means each cell has the same energy as five of the prior cell. Which makes sense, it's bigger.

They estimate the battery changes will get them about 50% more range for the same total size pack in their current production cars.

This will probably not directly affect the Cybertruck, as it already had many of these assumptions baked in. We don't know how much it will exceed their promises.

Towing is just a straight up additional watts per mile needed. Batteries don't change range hit.

-Crissa

Oops, I said one when I meant five ^-^;

 

[FutureBoy]

This will probably not directly affect the Cybertruck, as it already had many of these assumptions baked in.

This is itself an assumption. Many of us are in agreement that it’s probably true, but there has been no verifiable evidence of this. Elon seems to like surprising us so it could be that the original range numbers were kept to the before battery day numbers so that there would be a bigger surprise with the implications of battery day.

We don't know how much it will exceed their promises.

Exactly. We will eventually find out but at his point it is very difficult to place an accurate estimate.

 

[Diehard]

[

What are your thoughts on the estimated range while towing with the Cybertruck?> I pre-ordered the 3 motor AWD and am hoping to use it to tow a 10,000 lbs travel trailer. I'm hoping to get 200 miles range while towing, Just hope this isn't too optimistic for an EV.

Hang tight. You never know what kinds of third party solutions will be available by the time Cybertruck comes out. If Tesla allows charging while driving, you could put a gas generator in the back, kill the planet on rare occasions when you are towing and out of juice and save it when you are not. Basically turn your Cybertruck into a Chevy Volt when you need to. For people that are getting 3 motor just for range it could save $20K. I know it sounds like heresy. I am just saying, once electric trucks are on the road, this is a problem everyone would want to solve and where solutions mean money, you will have solutions.

Just imagine the looks you will get pulling into a gas station with your Cybertruck

 

[MEDICALJMP]

[Just imagine the looks you will get pulling into a gas station with your Cybertruck

Your Cybertruck will be pulling into gas statins frequently anyway. That’s where the conveniences stores are with all the snacks, dinks and restrooms are located. Oh, and windshield squeegees. Never seen a Supercharger station yet with a set up to clear the bugs off the windshield.

 

[ajdelange]

In the first place the CT will have lasers to blast the bugs into small molecules before they ever hit the windscreen. Nes pas?

I'll cite the SC at the Kingston, NY Checkrite as one that has widscreen cleaning stuff. At least I assume it does as it also has lots of petrol pumps and they nearly always have a squeegee or to.

 

[Diehard]

Your Cybertruck will be pulling into gas statins frequently anyway. That’s where the conveniences stores are with all the snacks, dinks and restrooms are located. Oh, and windshield squeegees. Never seen a Supercharger station yet with a set up to clear the bugs off the windshield.

If Tesla had the volume of a typical gas station, they would not miss out on the opportunity. I would not be surprised if we start seeing vending machines with advertisement for starlink and trips to Mars. On the bug front, CT windshield looked a bit steeper than a typical truck windshield. I wonder some bugs may just get an uplifting experience out of it Instead of a typical splat. We definitely need an official bug test by folks in front of the line to see if CT can save lives (for the bug community of course).

 

[Crissa]

If you go to the big superchargers, they have a little waiting area and stuff.

And I end up at the gas station on my Zero not as frequently as my spouse, but yeah. They have the convenience stores and air and stuff.

-Crissa