Quantifying overnight ("phantom") drain

[Crissa]

No one said it wasn't. This was a sub-thread on what could be causing non-driving energy costs.

Who are you arguing with?

I don't see anything in your post addressing mine.

-Crissa

 

[Woodrick]

Who are you arguing with?

I don't see anything in your post addressing mine.

-Crissa

You

It doesn't matter where the energy comes from for preconditioning. The sub thread is about why the vehicle was using more power than what the odometer indicated.

 

[Outdoors]

All I said was losing 2 Kwh a day is too much. Tesla has dramatically reduced it to way below that. As much as I said I could not quantify the loss after 4 days of sitting.

As far as me deflecting @Woodrick . This isn't a freaking therapy session dude. Hard ignore soon. Lack of comprehension skills. Can't fix a simple jack.

For my outside an EV usage 2 Kwh if I were to lose it in that world would be too much. I would be searching for the loss. Trying to find it. Outside of EV's we use about 25-40 Kwh a day. When we include EV's we are around 100 Kwh. We don't drive more than once every 3 days, and when we do we are charging another EV.

I know you still can't get it. You think solar panels can't work charging this truck. Why would I expect you to understand living off grid.

 

[Knucklehead]

Who are you arguing with?

-Crissa

Everyone.

 

[Knucklehead]

Legacy cars do have phantom drain. No one makes a big deal about them. And if it wasn't for Sentry, people really wouldn't really worry about Teslas either. But people turn Sentry on when they fo to the airport for a week trip and then get freaked out when thy only have 20% when they get back.

Phantom drain is the drain that occurs as the electronics continue to run when the vehicle is off. Don't legacy vehicles have alarm systems always monitoring? Don't they have keyless fobs that require the vehicle to always be monitoring? Don't many have remote start systems and apps that talk to the vehicle?
It is VERY possible to leave a legacy vehicle sitting and come back to a dead battery.

No, they don't.

My Mach-e has Phone as a Key (Paak) and Fobs and an app I can use to start the car, roll down the windows, lock and unlock it. And if I park it at the airport, it does not lose a single bit of charge while I am gone. Zero. I return and it has the exact same charge level as when I left. The same is true for other legacy car company BEVs. Maybe you think otherwise because you don't have one.

You are correct about Sentry mode, though. My car does not have a similar capability, and I don't know of a legacy company BEV that does. However, if you turn Sentry off, you should have zero drain, just like my car does. If not, it is a problem and it needs to be fixed. IMO.

BTW, Rivian has "Gear Guard" which is just like Sentry, but even if you turn it off, it still has unnecessary HVB drain. Maybe fixed in Gen 2?

 

[Crissa]

You

It doesn't matter where the energy comes from for preconditioning. The sub thread is about why the vehicle was using more power than what the odometer indicated.

Why? It does matter. Because when you're done preconditioning, when you use it from the wall, you have more left in the traction battery.

And if you tell it a leave time, it'll just make sure to charge up the vampire drain beforehand.

But in my post, I said that still doesn't help the times you can't plug in. But it does when you can.

No, they don't.

My Mach-e has Phone as a Key (Paak) and Fobs and an app I can use to start the car, roll down the windows, lock and unlock it. And if I park it at the airport, it does not lose a single bit of charge while I am gone.

Then it's lying to you.

All cars have vampire drain. That radio energy has to come from somewhere.

-Crissa

 

[Woodrick]

No, they don't.

My Mach-e has Phone as a Key (Paak) and Fobs and an app I can use to start the car, roll down the windows, lock and unlock it. And if I park it at the airport, it does not lose a single bit of charge while I am gone. Zero. I return and it has the exact same charge level as when I left. The same is true for other legacy car company BEVs. Maybe you think otherwise because you don't have one.

You are correct about Sentry mode, though. My car does not have a similar capability, and I don't know of a legacy company BEV that does. However, if you turn Sentry off, you should have zero drain, just like my car does. If not, it is a problem and it needs to be fixed. IMO.

BTW, Rivian has "Gear Guard" which is just like Sentry, but even if you turn it off, it still has unnecessary HVB drain. Maybe fixed in Gen 2?

So where does the energy to run all of that come from?

 

[Woodrick]

Why? It does matter. Because when you're done preconditioning, when you use it from the wall, you have more left in the traction battery.

And if you tell it a leave time, it'll just make sure to charge up the vampire drain beforehand.

But in my post, I said that still doesn't help the times you can't plug in. But it does when you can.



-Crissa

I know where you are coming from, I know what you mean.
But the question being answer is that I've measured X kWh going into the car, and that's a lot more than the x-y that the car reports as used for mileage
Usefullness is not the question, it's what's using the power. AC when the vehicle is stopped is useful, Cabin Overheat is useful, Sentry mode is useful, preconditioning is useful.

This question is not about phantom drain. It's really about non-mileage power utilization.

Look at message #55.

 

[Woodrick]

All I said was losing 2 Kwh a day is too much. Tesla has dramatically reduced it to way below that. As much as I said I could not quantify the loss after 4 days of sitting.

As far as me deflecting @Woodrick . This isn't a freaking therapy session dude. Hard ignore soon. Lack of comprehension skills. Can't fix a simple jack.

For my outside an EV usage 2 Kwh if I were to lose it in that world would be too much. I would be searching for the loss. Trying to find it. Outside of EV's we use about 25-40 Kwh a day. When we include EV's we are around 100 Kwh. We don't drive more than once every 3 days, and when we do we are charging another EV.

I know you still can't get it. You think solar panels can't work charging this truck. Why would I expect you to understand living off grid.

I've NEVER said that solar can't charge the truck. My only points of that is these portable solar generators are pitifully small in doing the job. No big deal with something like a 30+kW array with suitably sized batteries.

As to 2kWh, that's only 4 miles, 12 miles across three days. I find it EXTREMELY had to believe that your solar buffer is that small.

And yes, you've now indicated that you daily budget is not 24kWh, it's 100 kWh, you can't just exclude the vehicles. And in that case, we're talking only 2%.

I knew that you weren't being straightforward with you comments. There is NO WAY that if you only had 25 kWh/day of production capability that you could even think about plugging the Cybertruck in.
Which indeed brings us back around to the small solar generators. 25 kW a day is just pitiful to plug a truck into.


If you would have just been straightforward to begin with....

 

[Knucklehead]

So where does the energy to run all of that come from?

The LVB.

 

[Crissa]

The LVB.

Where does the power in that battery come from?

-Crissa

 

[Knucklehead]

Where does the power in that battery come from?

-Crissa

When driving it uses the HVB to recharge the LVB. When charging it uses the charging power. If the LVB drops to 40% SoC while parked, it will use the HVB to recharge. That is rare. If the car sits for long enough, it goes into a deeper sleep which makes it less responsive. But I have come home from trips and the car immediately responds when I try to open the hatch or door. It will take more than a week for the LVB to drain enough to require help from the HVB.

Due to the strain on the LVB, there have been reports of early LVB failures. So the solution isn't perfect. (This impacts people who rarely drive their cars more than it impacts others.) To me it is greatly preferable compared to the HVB draining to the point that I cannot make it home. And I have yet to have any issues with the LVB in my car. I will probably replace it at the 3 year mark even though it should last 5 years. Just to be safe...

 

[Crissa]

When driving it uses the HVB to recharge the LVB. When charging it uses the charging power. If the LVB drops to 40% SoC while parked, it will use the HVB to recharge. That is rare. If the car sits for long enough, it goes into a deeper sleep which makes it less responsive. But I have come home from trips and the car immediately responds when I try to open the hatch or door. It will take more than a week for the LVB to drain enough to require help from the HVB.

Due to the strain on the LVB, there have been reports of early LVB failures. So the solution isn't perfect. (This impacts people who rarely drive their cars more than it impacts others.) To me it is greatly preferable compared to the HVB draining to the point that I cannot make it home. And I have yet to have any issues with the LVB in my car. I will probably replace it at the 3 year mark even though it should last 5 years. Just to be safe...

So, you're just identifying that it does less and it lies to you about how much power has been lost to doing it.

-Crissa

 

[Knucklehead]

So, you're just identifying that it does less and it lies to you about how much power has been lost to doing it.

-Crissa

Not really. The HVB is not losing charge. The LVB is instead. Not sure why that is considered lying. The LVB is very small and easy to recharge. In fact, it is a AGM battery that is smaller than those typically used on a ICEV.

As you know, there is a lot of overhead associated with accessing the HVB. The BMS needs to manage the HVB and there is a lot of energy lost even if you just need 10 Watts from the HVB.

Anyway, I think it is a big problem. I think Tesla will solve it, but it needs a solution. And the legacy car companies prove there are solutions that work.

 

[Crissa]

Not really. The HVB is not losing charge. The LVB is instead. Not sure why that is considered lying...

When driving it uses the HVB to recharge the LVB. When charging it uses the charging power. If the LVB drops to 40% SoC while parked, it will use the HVB to recharge.

It's not telling you the power it's using. That's bad, Gir.

-Crissa