Cold Weather Charging: what really happened with MS not charging?

[Aces-Truck]

I saw this report about the owner of a Model S being unable to charge in 19 degree temperatures. Anyone here have better information on what was likely going on? here is the article I read: "https://truthpress.com/news/tesla-o...mas-eve-after-cold-weather-paralyzes-battery/"

 

[WildhavenMI]

I saw this report about the owner of a Model S being unable to charge in 19 degree temperatures. Anyone here have better information on what was likely going on? here is the article I read: "https://truthpress.com/news/tesla-o...mas-eve-after-cold-weather-paralyzes-battery/"

The quote from the Electrek article sums it up best, I think: "Man's car breaks down; Details at 11."

 

[CyberGus]

It is true that a Lithium battery cannot be charged while frozen without significant damage. However, thermal management should be able to warm the pack sufficiently, even at far colder temperatures (particularly when connected to shore power).

The inability to charge at 19° is not an inherent limitation of EVs, it is a malfunction.

 

[Aces-Truck]

Thanks @WildhavenMI, for the link. I thought this has to be an anomaly.

 

[Crissa]

If the thermal management fails, it won't be able to charge.

No different than a car with a frozen radiator or engine block. It can happen. This is why ICE cars wear engine-block heaters in that sort of prolonged cold.

Don't let your car go without a charge in the cold.

If the battery refuses to charge, as long as it's about 30%, it'll survive being frozen. Lithium batteries may not function in the cold, but they aren't damaged by it.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

The man didn't even say what year his Model S was or if Rich Rebuilds had worked on it!

 

[Deleted member 5322]

Just only one Tesla from million that have already been producing?
Is it a big deal to shake the whole Internet about it?

 

[kev12345]

The anti EV alarmist crowd has been running wild with this clip. Luckily Kyle from outofspec just did some deep cold tests related to this. It does take some time to heat up the battery before charging but not multiple hours!

Btw I think something is wrong with kyle’s PTC resistance heater in the second video…

 

[CyberGus]

I was under the impression that the PTC heater was eliminated in the M3 design. Heat is generated from the drive motors by running them inefficiently, even when not moving.

 

[android04]

The anti EV alarmist crowd has been running wild with this clip. Luckily Kyle from outofspec just did some deep cold tests related to this. It does take some time to heat up the battery before charging but not multiple hours!

Btw I think something is wrong with kyle’s PTC resistance heater in the second video…

My 2018 Model 3 PTC heater definitely doesn't take that long to heat up the cabin in -18 degree F (not counting wind chill). Probably takes 10 minutes to fully warm up the cabin. A few years ago we had -39 degree F temps (with no wind chill) and after sitting outside all night it did take a while to warm up the cabin to above 60 degree F, but it got to the 50 and 60 degree F range within 10 or 15 minutes.

 

[android04]

I was under the impression that the PTC heater was eliminated in the M3 design. Heat is generated from the drive motors by running them inefficiently, even when not moving.

The newer Model 3s and all Model Ys (and newer S and X) all now use the heatpump instead of a PTC cabin heater. The heatpump is the AC compressor working in reverse with some valves to redirect refrigerant flow and move heat between cabin, battery pack, drive unit, and the environment.

In all Model 3/Y, the drive inverters for the motors can be driven in a way that generates heat in order to heat up the battery pack (in the older PTC heated Model 3s) or to heat up the cabin (in the newer heat pump vehicles). Tesla can generate heat through that inefficient mode whether the car is being driven or not. The older Model S/X had a dedicated battery heater that warmed up the battery coolant. The newer S/X probably work the same way that the newer 3/Y do, where the drive inverter is used to generate heat.

 

[Crissa]

Yeah, a Tesla has a bunch of ways to make heat, and the octovalve to send it where it's needed.

But that doesn't mean it can't fail. Like any other car.

-Crissa

 

[Bill906]

I was under the impression that the PTC heater was eliminated in the M3 design. Heat is generated from the drive motors by running them inefficiently, even when not moving.

There was a person on this forum years ago who claimed that is how it worked. I have not seen any evidence to support it, and have seen references to the resistive heater, which seems to have disproved it.

 

[CyberGus]

There was a person on this forum years ago who claimed that is how it worked. I have not seen any evidence to support it, and have seen references to the resistive heater, which seems to have disproved it.

The heat pump can extract heat from the environment for the thermal management system, but efficiency drops with ambient temperature. Resistive heat must be added by some means, and older Tesla models definitely used a PTC heater.

However, eliminating a part by repurposing an existing part is a very Tesla thing to do.

 

[Crissa]

-Crissa