YDR37

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I'd estimate a good 5+ years of decline, sharper when new Y ages some again. Robotaxi won't move the needle any, may cost more in reality. I don't see any new products as well in that time frame making substial differences, especially not Optimus.
Well, that would be a "bearish" scenario. Obviously the long term is hard to forecast. My point is that even Elon's "bullish" scenario includes "rough quarters" in the short term (like right now).
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HaulingAss

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I stand corrected on Robotaxi deployment. They have it explicitly counted based on that definition in the 2nd pic. The math still maths with deployment. 11-12m is a huge hurdle. The first couple million will be quick (within 3 years), then it will tail off drastically to replacement rate (roughly every 3-4 years).
Your analysis of Robotaxi numbers completely ignored how much the ride hailing market will grow due to autonomy (autonomous cabs will bring dramatically lower prices and shorter wait times in ever-increasing service areas). The size of the ride hailing market will grow dramatically, miles driven by personal cars will shrink dramatically.

The shrinking market for traditionally owned private vehicles is why Elon is transitioning away from traditional auto manufacturing. He expects the Cybercab to outsell the 3 & Y combined!
 

Jabman

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Many of those are just trims (all except YL really), but platform sharing can reach extremes. VW's MLB platform underpinned the Audi A4 all the way to the A8 to the Lambo Urus and Cayenne. The new PPC platform (2024 debut) is already Q5/7/9 and A5/6 with the expectation of extending to Lamborghini and Porsche as well. 10+ models on one platform isn't all that uncommon. Tesla may call them 3/Y something, but hitting different segments like the YL does.

I'd expect a stretched 3 (why not call it 3L?), a YL to come to NA and Europe eventually (YL would have cratered X sales here, and no longer an issue), a compact Y (YC?) for Europe/Japan/Korea, and another model or 2 (Y pickup would be fantastic IMO). Not a ton, but fill some segments with minimal development cost and no longer a worry of cannibalizing S/X sales.

Selfishly, I want a Plaid 3. The 3 is a better driver's car than the S, and a tri-motor version of the 3 would be an amazing performance vehicle. Doesn't make a ton of sense with maybe 10-20k in volume though.
So, using your logic, Tesla has gone from S3XY to Y3LL?
in the words of Justin Timberlake “bring S3XY back.”
 

HaulingAss

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The S/X drives smoother, heavier, less road noise, faster, more comforts in the cabin...worth almost double the price? Probably not, but I've owned all versions outside of the M3 and I've had M3s for loaners and rentals. There's absolutely a difference in quality.
The refreshed Model 3 Performance with adaptive suspension has a much better ride and sound control than previous versions. It's more refined in so many ways, it's worth a second look by those who like high-quality cars that aren't ponderous in size. The cabin environment is very nice.
 

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I took his comment as confirmation the cybercab won’t be for sale to consumers. Their revenue base is transitioning to fees.
Selling Cybercabs to private buyers and private fleets will allow Tesla to rapidly grow recurring robotaxi network revenues. The Cybercab is designed to be built quickly in huge volumes and I doubt Tesla would want to finance huge numbers of those when they can just sell them to other operators who will place them on the robotaxi network.

It takes a lot of capital to build millions of Cybercabs, Tesla will want the sales revenue from a good portion of them, in addition to the recurring robotaxi network revenues.
 


PungoteagueDave

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Selling Cybercabs to private buyers and private fleets will allow Tesla to rapidly grow recurring robotaxi network revenues. The Cybercab is designed to be built quickly in huge volumes and I doubt Tesla would want to finance huge numbers of those when they can just sell them to other operators who will place them on the robotaxi network.

It takes a lot of capital to build millions of Cybercabs, Tesla will want the sales revenue from a good portion of them, in addition to the recurring robotaxi network revenues.
Elon Musk has stated that tif it is eventually sold to consumers it won't be for several years. His new contract specifically gives him credit toward the 10 million FSD sales hurdle for cars that are kept by Tesla for teh fleet. There's a huge legal hurdle to overcome in terms of liability and insurance when there's no more human driver. That can be handled in a taxi fleet, but when title passes to a new owner, insuring the vehicle and ownership rights get blurry. I get that they will be orders of magnitude safer than human drivers, but it is still a business model with no precedent at this point.. The same thing applies to unsupervised FSD, which he very clearly backed off on in terms of our existing cars - still years away, if ever, from the promise of putting it into the robotaxi fleet and having it pay for itself or take your kid to school, etc.
 

SCTesla

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Selling Cybercabs to private buyers and private fleets will allow Tesla to rapidly grow recurring robotaxi network revenues. The Cybercab is designed to be built quickly in huge volumes and I doubt Tesla would want to finance huge numbers of those when they can just sell them to other operators who will place them on the robotaxi network.

It takes a lot of capital to build millions of Cybercabs, Tesla will want the sales revenue from a good portion of them, in addition to the recurring robotaxi network revenues.
You obviously don't pay attention to the earnings meetings or Elon. They may eventually sell Cybercabs, but it's not occurring soon.

Also, Tesla is only legally allowed to make 2,500 Cybercabs per year until the laws change.
 

HaulingAss

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None of this will matter anyway in 15 years, when the cost of insurance to drive yourself anywhere will be $5,000+ per month. We just have to ease into this mindset over time, which we will.
Autonomy will not increase the cost of insurance for human drivers, it will lower the cost for autonomously driven vehicles.

If anything, a proliferation of autonomous vehicles should benefit insurance rates for human drivers because that should reduce the accident rate of human drivers.
 

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You obviously don't pay attention to the earnings meetings or Elon. They may eventually sell Cybercabs, but it's not occurring soon.

Also, Tesla is only legally allowed to make 2,500 Cybercabs per year until the laws change.
I didn't say Tesla will sell Cybercabs to private buyers "soon". But when they are cranking out millions of them, it's highly likely in order to reduce the capital expenses to Tesla while growing recurring revenues and profits.
 


Outdoors

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The tax credit drove sales for Tesla, which generates profits. Since they ended, sales have dropped, and their profit, so now they have to cut costs anywhere they can to drive shareholder value.

In other words, cut S & X production to drive profits up since S & X did not contribute much to their bottom line compared to 3 & Y.
You must have missed the capex spend. This is about the future. Not some wimpy bottom line now. Tesla isn't trying to compete against legacy auto any longer. Those are thoughts of yesteryear.
 

not_elon_

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Cybertruck and cybercab are Tesla’s only vehicles that aren’t a Nissan Murano clone. Such a shame if cybercab isn’t available for purchase by the non soccer mom tards among us.
 

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This sucks. I would rather have model S with 48v and SBW than have my TSLA quadruple in value.. to buy what? A lucid that can’t drive me home after a night out? Probably means roadster is permanent vaporware too, which he probably knew when he claimed it would fly. Hmph
 

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The tax credit drove sales for Tesla, which generates profits. Since they ended, sales have dropped, and their profit, so now they have to cut costs anywhere they can to drive shareholder value.
That's a word/thought salad, but not a very logical one.

In other words, cut S & X production to drive profits up since S & X did not contribute much to their bottom line compared to 3 & Y.
What kind of analysis is that?? S&X haven't been significant to Tesla's bottom line for 5 or 6 years. It has nothing to do with driving up profits (beyond freeing up factory space for more productive initiatives).
 

HaulingAss

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Cybertruck and cybercab are Tesla’s only vehicles that aren’t a Nissan Murano clone. Such a shame if cybercab isn’t available for purchase by the non soccer mom tards among us.
I don't get your point.

Why would Tesla differentiate between a soccer mom tards customer and everyone else?

Wouldn't purchase availability be equal, regardless of sociopolitical leanings?
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