F-150 Lighting EV Cancelled. To be Replaced by EREV Hybrid Lightning

[L3it3R]

Besides that, hybrids are not trying to do what Tesla is trying to do. Ford absolutely wants you to still have to have an engine that gets maintained, but until batteries have the required density or the ability to charge a hell of a lot faster, or we have a lot more chargers everywhere anybody wants to be, we are going to have multiple solutions- and that's OK!

So, as I mentioned one application is to eliminate range problems, the second one which folks here seem to not recognize is that enthusiasts are not prepared to give up ice engines for performance, super and hyper cars. Ferrari, McLaren, Bugatti and all the rest have made it clear that they do not intend to lay down and die because electric cars have instant torque and the insane acceleration that comes with it. They're combining those technologies and they're giving their fans the best of both worlds! It's awesome! It being complicated as a feature in that world- not a concern!

So, hybridization is not all about environmentalism it's about playing with technology and solving problems within our current capabilities. I didn't just become a car guy when Elon showed up. I appreciate what he's done and there are places where Tesla deserves to dominate, and will, but there's all kinds of blue water out there. Under Elon, Tesla will never make a motorcycle. But that's not the final word on the subject; LiveWire is doing all kinds of cool stuff and I'm glad they are even though I'm not a motorcycle guy.

I'm just as excited for my Scout as I am for my Aptera, and I hope that Slate knocks it out of the park! Tello is not for me, but they're doing some clever shit and I hope they find great success!

The narrowmindedness so frequently on display here never fails to surprise me. I guess that's on me.

I also have a scout and slate reservation. But ‘traditional’ hybrids just aren’t the way IMO. Having lived with a “high end” hybrid and driving it through all manner of scenarios (short, long, cross country and commute) the only time I truly enjoyed the fact it had an EV element was when the ICE never came on. As soon as it did it was a different experience and that pushed me to finally adopt the BEV - 3 Teslas later and I’ll never go back to filling a liquid fuel tank.

I hope there’s competition. Just couldn’t care less about anything with an ICE

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[deifiex_texan]

Note that there are actually two components to Ford's future EV truck strategy:

(1) Go EREV. RAM and Scout (VW) are also developing full-sized EREV trucks.

(2) Go smaller. The cancellation of the Lightning has not affected Ford's plans to introduce a mid-sized EV pickup. Slate and Kia are also developing smaller EV pickups. Seems like all of these smaller EV pickups will be pure BEV (not EREV).


So Ford (and other manufacturers) are not giving up on EV trucks -- they are just switching to different kinds of EV trucks. Elon has talked about switching gears as well, but I don't see any signs that this is actually happening:

Elon said he might be willing to switch to a normal looking truck in 2020.... Well before the most normal looking truck in America failed in 2025.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

Oh it was nice until that day, 🪫 then the next day 🪫, then the next month 🪫, then few months later. And again month later. The psyche can only take so much, but got a good deal on Carvana LOL. Take it good riddance.

Powertrain Malfunction was “Smurf” for Ford it could mean anything is wrong and the Lightning’s computer and components couldn’t complete the circuit?

Ford got tired of seeing my Lightning in the shop!

To be fair, lets not pretend it's the only vehicle/truck with flaws. knock on wood, except for crappy infotainment software my truck has had no problems.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

You’re entitled to your opinion. Every other electric car on the market is. In particular those in a similar price range and size that also serve similar functions.

So, there will be a huge bump in CT sales because Ford stop building the Lightning?

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

Ford is shooting themselves in the foot by going the “easy” EREV route. Battery cell technology is moving at a rapid pace and 450 mile “real world” battery packs powered by solid state battery cells may be in volume production by the time the new truck rolls into dealerships.

They could be looking at the EREV as a bridge until better battery tech arrives. Scout is doing the same thing.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

Among the best parts of EV ownership are:
1. Not having to work with dealerships
2. Not having all the maintenance of a gas motor

Any future f150 owners will now have both of these to deal with.

You should look at the Lightning forum. Most of them are saying they are going with another EV truck if they purchase another manufacture, and are not interested in the EREV. As for the first time buyers, not a concern, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

 

[YDR37]

They could be looking at the EREV as a bridge until better battery tech arrives. Scout is doing the same thing.

Remember, Ford is going two routes with electric truck development. They are going the EREV route with full-sized trucks. But they are continuing pure BEV development for mid-sized trucks:

While we shift F-150 Lightning to EREV, we are absolutely maintaining our plans and investment in the next generation of affordable EVs. The new Universal EV (UEV) platform is now more important than ever for Ford. UEV platform development is well underway. This flexible architecture will underpin a new family of smaller, more affordable, and cost-efficient vehicles—starting with a midsize pickup in 2027.

Why have EV pickups -- including the Lightning, the Cybertruck, and everything else -- failed to catch on so far? I keep hearing two reasons: (1) range and (2) price.

Those are difficult problems. Tesla tackled the range problem, and came up with the Range Extender. Tesla also tackled the price problem, and came up with the RWD Cybertruck. And both of those products were ... complete failures.

Ford's proposed solution to the range problem is an EREV with a (claimed) range of 700+ miles. Ford's proposed solution to the price problem is a midsized EV truck with a (claimed) starting price of $30,000. Maybe Ford will deliver on those claims, or maybe not. But Ford deserves some credit for recognizing and taking on the two biggest problems with EV trucks.

 

[hemiarch]

So, there will be a huge bump in CT sales because Ford stop building the Lightning?

no, but there will be a smaller percentage of EV truck sales lost by the cybertruck to other EV trucks including the lightning.
Fair to assume I think that if Burger King stops selling burgers there will be at least a modest increase in the sales of McDonald’s burgers.
Not everyone is going to want Ford’s new EREV impossible whopper.

 

[Cybertruck2024]

If you are pulling boats/trailers yes. It's a problem. Otherwise I'm curious of your view.

Just came across Wyoming a few weeks back in sub zero temps and 70MPH wind gusts. Range was 180 charged to 80% - over 200 if I needed it (with longer charge time). But to your point, glad I did not have a trailer.

I am not sure how you pulled this off. I drove from Buffalo, NY to Grand Rapids and average temperature was just over 10 degrees. I had a full load, I was probably at 90% of hauling capacity. I had top stop every 1:15 and charge for 25 minutes. What made this worse was two chargers had waits, because other people were stopping more frequently. Each stop also cost me $25. On the way back from this round trip I was kicking myself I didn't just rent a U-Haul, and I'm an environmentalist that loves EVs. If I am having these thoughts, how do you get anyone who is not interested in EVs to adopt them?

People don't want EV trucks, the sales across the segment is proof. The manufacturers aren't making any money on EV trucks, so what's the point at making them in low volume? Every manufacturer swung for the fences and assumed this segment would bring in tons of profit, each and every one of them was wrong.

 

[Karon]

We love our Cyberbeast! We kept my 2024 Ram Silverado and several other older gas guzzlers and wouldn't get rid of them!! I have always had a truck being a true Texan! It's funny but don't think of it as a truck or car! A class of its own! I drive the Cybertruck all the time. My husband drives the others. He never gets the chance driving the Cybertruck. LOL
If we need to haul something we use my truck! Hope Elon never gets rid of it!

 

[Vegetaban]

Capacity is simply the big issue with towing. You need to throw a ton of batteries to do long distance towing, and the density/chemistries remain issue. The Semi works because there is enough room (physically in the chassis and in the price) to justify huge battery packs. When you're talking about a 60-90k truck... the limit while being profitable is in the mid 100s kWh and 225-250 if you're willing to take a bath on it. As prices for batteries continues to decrease and chemistry changes allow more energy dense batteries, this will potentially change. We're simply not there yet.

EREVs will try to solve the issue buy having a gas generator. There is significant complexity to this, but it can solve the towing range issue. It'll do so while running an engine at a fairly high load consistently, sacrificing efficiency, adding complexity and a need for very good software (which outside of Tesla and some Chinese automakers, they all suck at) to control all of this... with a lot more maintenance.

Now I think the question is... is the juice worth the squeeze? All of this extra complexity, lowered payload (and thus lower tongue weight which will lead to lower towing ability), inefficiency... to make an EV that can tow longer than ~150 miles without charging. A diesel truck (even with today's emissions complexities) is way less complex than that... and a better tool for the job if you frequently tow long distances. A pure EV truck is far more efficient and a better driving vehicle as long as you don't tow long distances, it is a far superior daily. This seems like an answer to a question that nobody should be asking. If you tow a lot for long distances, buy a diesel. If you don't tow long distances frequently, get an EV. If you have significant mixed use, a gasser heavy duty 1/2 ton or 3/4 might be the best mix. Forcing an EREV into this gives kind of the worst of all worlds....

IMO most (not all) people really do overestimate how much they actually tow. If you never go beyond ~150mi towing, or that only happens once a month consistently... then the downsides of EV towing are no big deal. It is an hour or so a month inconvenience for all the upside elsewhere (this is the camp I'm in). If you're in the camp of 3-4+ times a month of towing like that, simply get a different vehicle and an EREV won't be the one to get.

I've towed maybe three times in the past decade. When purchasing the CT it wasn't a consideration. Additionally if I need to tow it will be less than 100 miles, so another moot point for me.

 

[freddms]

People don't want EV trucks, the sales across the segment is proof. The manufacturers aren't making any money on EV trucks...

Your situation is unique - I did a post showing a survey where 25% of truck owners uses a trailer more than 2 times/year. You can Grok/Google the data.

For those that regularly pull trailers, and large loads - I 100% agree with you, it's not there. That's why Tesla had the range extender - but because of sales volume of CT (factoring in those that would buy extenders at current cost - probably less than 5%) it did not make sense.

Energy density and weight of batteries need to increase/decrease proportionally. It's coming, we are just not there yet. This chart from Ark shows we probably get there in the early 2030's. The slide is about robotaxi's, but battery production is the key (lowering cost and increasing energy density).

I'm hooked on the CT, but if I were pulling boats/trailers I would have to have a diesel truck - add in the optional second tank!

 

[dalton108]

Your situation is unique - I did a post showing a survey where 25% of truck owners uses a trailer more than 2 times/year. You can Grok/Google the data.

For those that regularly pull trailers, and large loads - I 100% agree with you, it's not there. That's why Tesla had the range extender - but because of sales volume of CT (factoring in those that would buy extenders at current cost - probably less than 5%) it did not make sense.

Energy density and weight of batteries need to increase/decrease proportionally. It's coming, we are just not there yet. This chart from Ark shows we probably get there in the early 2030's. The slide is about robotaxi's, but battery production is the key (lowering cost and increasing energy density).

I'm hooked on the CT, but if I were pulling boats/trailers I would have to have a diesel truck - add in the optional second tank!

If these statistics were relevant, electric trucks would be a success they are not.

Again, this is what happens when you put somebody who’s on the spectrum in charge of discerning what people want.

People don’t make rational purchase decisions they make emotional ones. That I don’t do something regularly doesn’t mean that I don’t want to be able to if I choose to. It’s as simple as that.

Environmentalist and people with 300 mile trucks to sell have been trying to convince people that they don’t need what they want for more than a decade. It’s not working. It won’t work.

 

[SCTesla]

Your situation is unique - I did a post showing a survey where 25% of truck owners uses a trailer more than 2 times/year. You can Grok/Google the data.

For those that regularly pull trailers, and large loads - I 100% agree with you, it's not there. That's why Tesla had the range extender - but because of sales volume of CT (factoring in those that would buy extenders at current cost - probably less than 5%) it did not make sense.

Energy density and weight of batteries need to increase/decrease proportionally. It's coming, we are just not there yet. This chart from Ark shows we probably get there in the early 2030's. The slide is about robotaxi's, but battery production is the key (lowering cost and increasing energy density).

I'm hooked on the CT, but if I were pulling boats/trailers I would have to have a diesel truck - add in the optional second tank!

Citing Ark is like citing Reddit. They are completely unrealistic and make up their numbers.

Their bear case for 2025 was 5 million deliveries and a gross margin per vehicle of 40%, . Outside of the initial rise, they have over inflated and been wrong on Tesla consistently.

Tesla will be under 1.7 million deliveries and have 17.2% vehicle margins in 2025.

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