F-150 Lightning Review - Throttle House

[charliemagpie]

didnt mean to offend; instead, after you’d come in with your “mic drop”/“model T” stuff it seemed you were up for some return “insinuation”

I suppose I didn’t appreciate you were … serious?

but if you’re being serious, and you believe towing is about relative torque and “superior AI which manage the traction,” then I’ve got a new tow-battle for you!

Whenever the Ct comes out, you choose any configuration you’d like, and I’ll use an old 2019 production model Ford pickup with zero “AI” and a measly ~500ftlbs of torque

which would be as silly as the video EM tweeted

A few words in jest / good spirit , do not warrant a condescending reply. I'm Aussie, 'drop Mike moment' to me is just colloquialism or a funny meme.

The internet has its magic moments. TY for your gracious response.

I am used to seeing Tesla surpass expectations and find an innovative way to do things. Physics is the same for everyone, but its the tech which sets them apart. Better traction management could be the difference.

I don't profess to be smarter than someone who knows their stuff.

I don't think Elon would post such a video just to be flippant about it. It will be so, only the brave bet against Elon. I am yet to see a winner.

Fanboy ? Yes.

Lots of instances reported by news where only Neil Degrass tweet comes up. The whole conversation took some digging.

 

[cvalue13]

Lots of instances reported by news where only Neil Degrass tweet comes up. The whole conversation took some digging.

love my Aussies (worked for years for an Aussie company, and since I live in TX my wife gives me unending shit for still using the term ‘mate’ so often)

My “embarrassing” bit, too, was intended to be a jab of jest - which is only any good if related to some truth!

for me, that truth as so far been one of the most cringe-worthy moments of the CT’s continuing introduction to the world. here’s this EV company purporting to present to the world a truck better and unlike no other, to redefine what a truck is and can be - which assertions all are based on the implication that Tesla know what a truck is.

there’s then this moment in the initial reveal, of watching a CT prototype the apparent size of an F-250, and appearing to weigh as much as a Shearman tank, tow-battling the smallest, lightest, least tow-capable F150 on the market… which EM describes as, quote “a real world test” (@14:50)

… and the Tesla crowd in attendance goes wild

For some of us that have been driving pickups for 2-3 decades, and are at this point in 2019 wondering if Tesla has in fact redefined what a pickup can be, this point in the presentation was more cringe-worthy than the steel balls shattering the windows.

It screamed, “not only does Tesla not understand trucks, it’s fans really don’t.”

(Didn’t help that Musk later doubled-down in his tweets suggesting the gimmick demonstrated anything about relative torque.”

anyhow, I have every faith that if a CT is produced it will have better dollar-for-dollar towing capabilities than it’s relative competition (since that obviously will be a Tesla-specific qualification for releasing the vehicle) - and expect they’ve learned a lot since that initial reveal gimmick about how best to demonstrate that to truck people

and as ‘mates,’ recommend you avoid citing that towing incident as an indication of Tesla’s capabilities!

 

[Ogre]

The tug-o-war was goofy.

If they want an idea of towing power, something like a tractor pull would be a better way of measuring it.

 

[cvalue13]

The tug-o-war was goofy.

If they want an idea of towing power, something like a tractor pull would be a better way of measuring it.

that thing was almost RWD!

 

[Ogre]

that thing was almost RWD!

Those tractor pulls are serious stuff. Getting as far as it did is impressive.

 

[rr6013]

The tug-o-war was goofy.

If they want an idea of towing power, something like a tractor pull would be a better way of measuring it.

This is legit amazeballs!

I’ve drag raced. Won. Turned around and put that balanced and blueprinted race engine in a new Chev 4x4 hooked up to a tractor pull sled.
Chev couldn’t compete with the pull Rivian just laid down.

 

[rr6013]

that thing was almost RWD!

Perfect pull angle on a tractor sled is 4°, which leaves the front wheels off the ground 4-8”.

 

[Crissa]

Perfect pull angle on a tractor sled is 4°, which leaves the front wheels off the ground 4-8”.

That's for a single drive train, tho.

Also, what about adaptive ride height per axle?

-Crissa

 

[cvalue13]

Chev couldn’t compete with the pull Rivian just laid down.

To be fair to your Chevy, we don’t know this sled’s set-up adjustments or sledweight, and can’t tell if there’s even weight in the box

Here’s a F150 3.5L ecoBoost pulling a sled, too

 

[rr6013]

To be fair to your Chevy, we don’t know this sled’s set-up adjustments or sledweight, and can’t tell if there’s even weight in the box

Here’s a F150 3.5L ecoBoost pulling a sled, too

3.5L moved that sled bringing tension onto the hitch. That’s suspect – a tell. It doesn’t slow the truck neither as it rolls up.

Just moving a sled from dead-stop is beyond the limits of a stock torque converter in an automatic transmission. I found out 600hp doesn’t help neither.

Rivian could have modified the sled. But the standing audience at Carrol County squelched that idea for me. Folks don’t countenance tricky-shit like throwing weight. It would never fly in that part of the country.

Tractor pulls are about torque - lots. ICE needs cu. in. to overcome dead weight. EV have torque where its needed - low end. Rivian amazed it pulled and pulled the distance. The latter making amazeballs! FORD just doesn’t meet the cu.in. physics to warrant the pull at start that it revealed. The distance was irrelevant after that.

 

[rr6013]

That's for a single drive train, tho.

Also, what about adaptive ride height per axle?

-Crissa

Watch the Rivian again. Notice the weight rollup. As the weight comes on, tires dig deeper, rear end squats and the front wheels begin to lift. That’s the 4° angle matching the sled weight that they consider perfect.
Watch the FORD pull. Notice the weight rollup. As the weight comes on, tires don’t dig deeper, rear end don’t squat and the front wheels don’t lift.
Watch the FORD a second time. Keep an eye on the sled front wheels. They hydraulic lift off the ground late into the pull. Big no-no

 

[cvalue13]

Just moving a sled from dead-stop is beyond the limits of a stock torque converter in an automatic transmission. I found out 600hp doesn’t help neither.

you sound like you know a whole lot more than me, for sure

so I’m only left confused



Like this 2011 Erin, Ontario, fair - there are stock class pulls … these guys may have tow tunes, 15psi, and damage to the Jesus bolts once it’s all over, but they are “stock” 1/2ton trucks pulling a sled that isn’t dissimilar from the one in the Rivian vid (and the winner does a pull nearly 350’!)

I have no doubt a 835 hp and 908 lb-ft of torque Rivian could pull more sled (or further) than any tuned 3.6L EcoBoost - not saying thst

instead just that seeing a Rivian pull a sled doesn’t on its own mean that’s not the same sled setup getting pulled in a stock class sort of sled set-up

anyway, back to ogre’s point: agree that to the extent anyone gives a damn about a CT vs F150L vs Rivian ultimate tow-off, there is a sport out there that does does understand the physics of towing and can provide a true test of completely useless towing capabilities!

set ‘em on the same sled and let it go!

 

[cvalue13]

Watch the Rivian again. Notice the weight rollup. As the weight comes on, tires dig deeper, rear end squats and the front wheels begin to lift.

remember, though, the Rivian has an empty frunk over those front wheels!