ZERO PUBLIC ROAD TOWING TESTS

[HaulingAss]

You are probably correct in general, but I don't have that limitation on the 100kwh Model X compared to the 135 kWh R1T (same hill, same boat ModeL X never limits regen. I think it's more of a thermal limitation issue on the inverter/motor. Pretty lame really to force the use of brakes and its a little shocking when the regen doesn't kick in when you expect it to and you jump over to the brakes.

If you had bigger balls, you might have just let it run. At higher speeds the aerodynamic drag comes into equalibrium with the grade. What? There were corners? Oh, like I said, it might take bigger balls! ?

Seriously though, it's not considered a defect when an ICE vehicle doesn't have enough compression braking, and ICE vehicles require riding the brakes on even gentle grades when descending with a heavy load, but I'm sure you didn't have to ride the brakes as much as your typical ICE tow vehicle. The ability to regen is also affected by battery temperature. The batteries can take maximum regen power when they are about 90 degrees F.

All that said, it's interesting that your Model Y, with its smaller battery, provides more regen power. Are you sure the batteries/environmental temperatures were equivalent?

 

[HaulingAss]

Tesla's Cybertruck Tug-of-War Stunt Was Pointless
Engineering Explained - 3.56M subscribers

This kind of test would be more illuminating as to the real capabilities of various trucks if they were loaded to their maximum GVWR and equipped with the same tires. Then the test would come down to how much weight each truck could handle, and how good the traction control was under full load. Also, it's also important that the tow rope is attached so it's level to the ground, something that is often overlooked.

Of course, the Cybertruck would still beat the Lightning, without a doubt, but at least it would be a fairer battle.

 

[Crissa]

All that said, it's interesting that your Model Y, with its smaller battery, provides more regen power. Are you sure the batteries/environmental temperatures were equivalent?

Newer models also have better power electronics and batteries, so that would also affect regen rates.

-Crissa

 

[Luke42]

The Model X and Model Y are structurally and mechanically similar to the Cybertruck. The Cybertruck is stiffer and has rear wheel steering, but the power is systems are fairly similar. The motors are mounted similarly, etc.

-Crissa

If I told you that the F150 would be able to tow 14k-lbs and didn't need an extensive towing test-program, because the Escape can tow 3500lbs and the Explorer can tow 5000lbs, you'd rightly laugh at me.

Based on what I know today, I'm waiting until the Cybertruck has been on the market for at least a year before I act on my reservation.

 

[kev12345]

around the release date Tesla should have a a few cybertrucks do a cross country towing tour just to show that it can be done. free advertising at the superchargers.

 

[Haopec]

If you had bigger balls, you might have just let it run. At higher speeds the aerodynamic drag comes into equalibrium with the grade. What? There were corners? Oh, like I said, it might take bigger balls! ?

Seriously though, it's not considered a defect when an ICE vehicle doesn't have enough compression braking, and ICE vehicles require riding the brakes on even gentle grades when descending with a heavy load, but I'm sure you didn't have to ride the brakes as much as your typical ICE tow vehicle. The ability to regen is also affected by battery temperature. The batteries can take maximum regen power when they are about 90 degrees F.

All that said, it's interesting that your Model Y, with its smaller battery, provides more regen power. Are you sure the batteries/environmental temperatures were equivalent?

Just a clarification, Model X (100KWH) battery compared to R1T (~135kwh?).
Yes, very similar conditions and load. R1T consistently reduces regen, even on smaller loads like my car trailer with my tractor on it. (I tow a lot!)

I'm not saying either vehicle is worse than towing with an ICE, both R1T and Tesla vehicles TOW extremely well. The point I was making was that testing is good, do more of it

 

[JWass]

Which designs are similar to the Cybertruck?

Please elaborate.

Well the Model Y 4608 would be the best. It is using the same motors, similar battery pack design, front and rear mega castings, and a steel passenger compartment.

Lots of data on the Y by now. That they can use to help design and cut down on iterations of the CT.

 

[JWass]

The Model X and Model Y are structurally and mechanically similar to the Cybertruck. The Cybertruck is stiffer and has rear wheel steering, but the power is systems are fairly similar. The motors are mounted similarly, etc.

-Crissa

My thoughts exactly. Even though the CT is ground up new in many ways. It is derivative of the Model Y 4680 and close to the X.
Both of which row and rated towing capacities.
J

 

[JWass]

If I told you that the F150 would be able to tow 14k-lbs and didn't need an extensive towing test-program, because the Escape can tow 3500lbs and the Explore can tow 5000lbs, you'd rightly laugh at me.

Based on what I know today, I'm waiting until the Cybertruck has been on the market for at least a year before I act on my reservation.

Except in your example those vehicles are nowhere near the way a F150 is assembled and built. Not even close. So that’s not really a valid argument.

Engineering and numbers. Nothing trivial about battery capacity, motor power requirements, weight, drag, etc.
All very predictable how those variables will impact towing capacity and range.

But hey, hang onto your reservation as long as you can/want. Your prerogative.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

that may a been a theme of the unveil presentation, but it was certainly *not* the context of the stunt against the 2019 CT prototype. which is sort of the point

The F-150 used in that stunt was a lower-spec STX package was a 2 wheel drive (i.e., a single, powered tire in the rear, where there's ~no weight), on stock tires, in a short-bed configuration (145.4 wheelbase.

Meanwhile, the CT prototype was all-wheel drive, on 36" mudder tires, with a noticeably longer wheelbase, and whatever the CT prototype weighed (we dont know), as a BEV it was distributed ~equally 'over' all four tires.

these differences, given that these pulling stunts come down entirely to traction, is why the stunt had nothing to do with the theme of the unveil presentation

I don’t, and never did, care about the stunt. I was only responding to ‘your’ comparison to something much larger and heavier. We need not go down this path because I am of the belief that Tesla should be doing payload and tow testing in all conditions and road types.

 

[FutureBoy]

Thing is... A toddler can PULL near infinite mass. Doesn't mean the mass will budge. But they can pull all they like.

 

[FutureBoy]

Based on what I know today, I'm waiting until the Cybertruck has been on the market for at least a year before I act on my reservation.

Unless your order is from the hour of the first launch event, you probably don't have to worry about getting your order during your 1 year wait.

 

[newwave1331]

around the release date Tesla should have a a few cybertrucks do a cross country towing tour just to show that it can be done. free advertising at the superchargers.

Cannonball would be a good demonstration of range, efficiency and charging speed.

Red Ball Garage to Portofino Hotel route needs V4 Superchargers and Megachargers so the Cybertruck can dominate the EV record with and without towing. The EV record is currently 42hr26min by Ryan Levenson and Josh Allan in a 2021 Model S Long Range on 10/22/2021.

Non-Trailering
Assuming the Tri-motor range is 500 mile and 365 wh/mi @ 65mph, at 200% speed limit or max speed of 100 mph (w/10mph headwind), ABRP says 28hr57min driving and 9hr28min charging (14 stops - fewer but longer). If we can reduce charging time by 67% with the faster charging on V4 and MC, it would be 3hrs and 10mins charging. 28hr57min + 3hr10min = 32hr 7min. Thats -10hrs or a ~25% reduction in overall time! That record should stand until the model s gets an upgrade to the 1000V architecture and MW charging.

Trailering (~10k lbs)
Assuming the Tri-motor range is 500 miles (~300mi with load) and 550 wh/mi @ 65mph, at 150% speed limit or max speed of 75 mph (w/10mph headwind), ABRP says 38hr34min driving and 9hr45min charging (14 stops - fewer but longer). If we can reduce charging time by 67% with the faster charging on V4 and MC, it would be 3hr25min charging. 38hr34min + 3hr25min = 41hr49min. That would beat the current overall EV record even with a 10k trailering load. That trailering record should stand for a long time.

 

[Luke42]

Except in your example those vehicles are nowhere near the way a F150 is assembled and built. Not even close. So that’s not really a valid argument.

Engineering and numbers. Nothing trivial about battery capacity, motor power requirements, weight, drag, etc.
All very predictable how those variables will impact towing capacity and range.

But hey, hang onto your reservation as long as you can/want. Your prerogative.

So you're saying Tesla doesn't need to test the stuff they build to make sure it works?

?‍

I live the Product Development lifestyle at work. You have to test what you build. And you have to test it early enough that you can fix the bugs that you inevitably find.

If Tesla really isn't testing their stuff, I'm out.

 

[firsttruck]

Cannonball would be a good demonstration of range, efficiency and charging speed.

Red Ball Garage to Portofino Hotel route needs V4 Superchargers and Megachargers so the Cybertruck can dominate the EV record with and without towing. The EV record is currently 42hr26min by Ryan Levenson and Josh Allan in a 2021 Model S Long Range on 10/22/2021.

Non-Trailering
Assuming the Tri-motor range is 500 mile and 365 wh/mi @ 65mph, at 200% speed limit or max speed of 100 mph (w/10mph headwind), ABRP says 28hr57min driving and 9hr28min charging (14 stops - fewer but longer). If we can reduce charging time by 67% with the faster charging on V4 and MC, it would be 3hrs and 10mins charging. 28hr57min + 3hr10min = 32hr 7min. Thats -10hrs or a ~25% reduction in overall time! That record should stand until the model s gets an upgrade to the 1000V architecture and MW charging.

Trailering (~10k lbs)
Assuming the Tri-motor range is 500 miles (~300mi with load) and 550 wh/mi @ 65mph, at 150% speed limit or max speed of 75 mph (w/10mph headwind), ABRP says 38hr34min driving and 9hr45min charging (14 stops - fewer but longer). If we can reduce charging time by 67% with the faster charging on V4 and MC, it would be 3hr25min charging. 38hr34min + 3hr25min = 41hr49min. That would beat the current overall EV record even with a 10k trailering load. That trailering record should stand for a long time.

Would the trailering runs have a specific standard trailer that will be used for carrying the 10k lbs?

If not, each trailers differences in like drag coefficient of drag, frontal area, length, rolling resistance (rolling friction), surface finish, etc would make comparing tow vehicles and trip times very difficult.