F150 Powerboost Hybrid

[rr6013]

The wife and I are currently leasing the 2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid, being the data freak that I am, I have collected “real world” data to report the fuel milage this vehicle gets. Over the first year of operation, we traveled 12,456 miles on 203.75 gallons of regular fuel for an Impressive 61.13 miles per gallon. Now mind you, Toyota never expressed or implied that this vehicle would return this kind of performance, so I was very much surprised with these results. For all those seeking exceptional hybrid performance I would highly recommend this vehicle.

In terms of greenhouse gas emissions, hybrid cars on average produce 0.35 fewer pounds of greenhouse gas per mile than regular ICE cars, adding up to a tremendous environmental advantage over the course of a car’s 160,000 mile lifespan…for hybrid vehicles that charge their batteries themselves - U.S. Department of Energy’s Argonne National Laboratory 2006

True Toyota leverages 2006 study data to promote hybrid but 15 yrs is a generational lifetime during which LiON has continued to change chemistry, rare earths and better CO2 impacts.

Also true, global warming continues on earth where it is at the apex of earth’s tipping point today. Toyota projecting 30yr hybrid production amounts to the world’s #1 largest vehicle producer standing on the linear graph line for earth GHG warming to hit 4 degrees Celsius.

TSLA can only produce 2% vehicle production compared to Toyota even though Teslas sold represent 54% BEV. Tesla busting GHG, Toyota can do better selling hybrids only by producing non-plugins in sufficiently huge quantities. Toyota leaveraging such economy of scale such that it can make hybrids so much cheaper than ICE, so more attractive in range and cost so less per mile that it replaces the worlds ICE fleet. Toyota can win that moral imperative.

That’s what TSLA is set to achieve if Toyota doesn’t. T M expects to sell hybrid until 2050. Elon will be 80yo. Tesla takes that long…Game Over GHG won IMO

 

[CyberMoose]

In terms of greenhouse gas emissions, hybrid cars on average produce 0.35 fewer pounds of greenhouse gas per mile than regular ICE cars, adding up to a tremendous environmental advantage over the course of a car’s 160,000 mile lifespan…for hybrid vehicles that charge their batteries themselves - U.S. Department of Energy’s Argonne National Laboratory 2006

True Toyota leverages 2006 study data to promote hybrid but 15 yrs is a generational lifetime during which LiON has continued to change chemistry, rare earths and better CO2 impacts.

Also true, global warming continues on earth where it is at the apex of earth’s tipping point today. Toyota projecting 30yr hybrid production amounts to the world’s #1 largest vehicle producer standing on the linear graph line for earth GHG warming to hit 4 degrees Celsius.

TSLA can only produce 2% vehicle production compared to Toyota even though Teslas sold represent 54% BEV. Tesla busting GHG, Toyota can do better selling hybrids only by producing non-plugins in sufficiently huge quantities. Toyota leaveraging such economy of scale such that it can make hybrids so much cheaper than ICE, so more attractive in range and cost so less per mile that it replaces the worlds ICE fleet. Toyota can win that moral imperative.

That’s what TSLA is set to achieve if Toyota doesn’t. T M expects to sell hybrid until 2050. Elon will be 80yo. Tesla takes that long…Game Over GHG won IMO

I think EV's stand to become much more environmentally friendly. The current model 3 has a body and drive unit that is supposed to be on par with commercial vehicle quality and could last a million miles. The weak point is the battery which is estimated to only be able to last around 300,000 miles, however that's still far better than the current life of most vehicles today.

It's no doubt that Tesla is working towards increasing the life of their batteries by a great amount. We're all hoping for a million mile battery in the future, but even if we reach half of that, the amount of new cars that need to be produced each year will begin to decline.

 

[Crissa]

Tesla produced 0.5 million cars last year; Toyota sold 9.5 million vehicles. In the US, Tesla sold ~293K vehicles, Toyota sold 2.1M.

That's a bit more than '2%'. Tesla makes 2% of all US new car sales so far.

-Crissa

 

[Luke42]

I'm curious about thoughts of people on here. EV is less equipment, less parts to service or replace than ICE. Isn't hybrid even more parts and more complicated than ICE?

The gearbox can be dramatically simpler on a hybrid.

For instance, the eCVT in the Prius is mechanically much simpler than the automatic transmission in a Corolla, and the complexity lives in software. The Prius is mechanically simpler than a comparable ICE vehicle.

But it doesn't have to be that way. The eCVT in my 2-Mode GMC Sierra Hybrid, though, effectively replaces the torque converter. It still has a 4-speed auto, and a 4x4 transfer case -- just like a regular Silverado/Sierra/Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon/Escalade. The GM 2-Mode system is mechanically more complex than a comparable ICE vehicle.

As with everything in engineering, the devil is in the details.

 

[SpaceYooper]

If your claim is that remote you should probably just use a gas vehicle and bring jerry cans. That's a real edge case for EV's with no place to put solar cells.

I agree that it is an edge case for EVs or vehicles in general, but not that much of an edge case for truck owners. Very similar scenarios are played out every hunting season by thousands of people. I'm in a similar boat to Pappy. One difference is that he's driving to one spot (his claim) and might have the ability to leave a solar trailer there if he can get it there. When hunting I'm not going to the same place every day and towing a trailer isn't always practical on these trails. I think building a full size EV truck that meets the demands of its customers is a monumental task and it's why EVs have been around for quite a while now, but the full size trucks have not. I'm glad we are starting to see some progress.

 

[HaulingAss]

I agree that it is an edge case for EVs or vehicles in general, but not that much of an edge case for truck owners. Very similar scenarios are played out every hunting season by thousands of people. I'm in a similar boat to Pappy. One difference is that he's driving to one spot (his claim) and might have the ability to leave a solar trailer there if he can get it there. When hunting I'm not going to the same place every day and towing a trailer isn't always practical on these trails. I think building a full size EV truck that meets the demands of its customers is a monumental task and it's why EVs have been around for quite a while now, but the full size trucks have not. I'm glad we are starting to see some progress.

I'm a truck owner and, like most American truck owners, I don't use my truck for hunting. You are mixing up two different things, hunting and owning a truck.

In 1955, ten percent of Americans were hunters, today it has declined to less than 4 percent and that is projected to continue to decline in coming years. 4% is already an edge case and is not even significant in terms of the transition to sustainable transportation. At least three-quarters of those hunters don't hunt in remote parts of the West where an EV might not be suitable. There are a lot of hunters in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, etc. who would have no issues with the 500 mile range of the Cybertruck. Many use shotguns to hunt deer or waterfowl not far from home.

Hunters that would be hindered using a Cybertruck amount to less than 1% of all buyers of light road vehicles. In general, EV's are not yet well suited to the 5% of people who live in very expansive rural areas and have longer distance transportation needs unless they want to make it work. This is changing quickly with the expansion of fast DC charging networks. In 10-15 years 4% of those last 5% will be well covered leaving less than 1% preferring gas vehicles for their daily transportation needs.

 

[Crissa]

Alas, most truck owners are trophy or aspirational owners more than anything. That's not to say most trucks don't see utility use; just that most sit in driveways, commutes, and in apartment parking lots.

-Crissa

 

[SpaceYooper]

I'm a truck owner and, like most American truck owners, I don't use my truck for hunting. You are mixing up two different things, hunting and owning a truck.

I'm not mixing them up. I know most of the trucks in the US are not used for hunting. You're misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say most truck owners hunt. I didn't even say most hunters use trucks. (Though I would argue they probably do). All I said is that thousands do. Of the millions of hunters that use full size trucks, I'm sure there are thousands like me.

In 1955, ten percent of Americans were hunters, today it has declined to less than 4 percent and that is projected to continue to decline in coming years. 4% is already an edge case and is not even significant in terms of the transition to sustainable transportation.

The US population has more then doubled since 1955. The percent of decline doesn't correlate to equally less hunters.

I disagree that the 4% makes us a edge case. I agree that we're pretty insignificant when it comes to trying to build out for sustainable translation. I don't think the industry should cater to the millions of truck owner/hunters that make up that 4%, and even less so for those in similar boats to me. But the needs of those 4% are inline with another population of truck owners...the towing crowd, who understand 500 miles isn't 500 miles. Combine us and we're well into the teen % if not more. If a company is going to build a full size truck...and not come out and say it's just going to built for fleets (Lordstown) and the population that will pretty much have continuous access to charging, then they are making the vehicle for those of us that use it for everything, in all seasons and "road" conditions, including remote hunting and towing and they are therefore subject to hear from us why we want more from the truck.

There are a lot of hunters in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, etc. who would have no issues with the 500 mile range of the Cybertruck. Many use shotguns to hunt deer or waterfowl not far from home.

Yup, I'm from Michigan. I'm familiar with hunting close. But I'm also familiar with hunting there away from home where there are not readily available Tesla chargers for hours in any direction (U.P.).

Hunters that would be hindered using a Cybertruck amount to less than 1% of all buyers of light road vehicles. In general, EV's are not yet well suited to the 5% of people who live in very expansive rural areas and have longer distance transportation needs unless they want to make it work. This is changing quickly with the expansion of fast DC charging networks. In 10-15 years 4% of those last 5% will be well covered leaving less than 1% preferring gas vehicles for their daily transportation needs.

89% of all statistics are made up on the spot, or is it 99%. Additional fast charging is needed on a grand scale to compete with ICE and gas stations, however unlike filling a gas tank in 10 minutes, fast charging hurts the battery life. For those of us who prioritize range, and are willing to pay extra to get more of it, this seems like a bad thing.

I think building a full size EV truck that meets the demands of its customers is a monumental task and it's why EVs have been around for quite a while now, but the full size trucks have not. I'm glad we are starting to see some progress.

I know this is a F150 Powerboost Hybrid conversation, so I'll criticize it too. Not the engine, or milage, or cost, but the continued idiotic engineering the Ford pits into the rear, no external door handle, suicide door, with the attached front seatbelt in the extended cab models. This "feature" alone will prevent me from buying a Ford if they continue with it. I can't access the back door without opening the front. I can't let passengers out without unbuckling and opening my own door. It might as well be a two door truck with a back seat. I hate this design.