New Solid State Battery shown at CES - Game Changer??

[Setok]

Maybe some of the same people but I'm not seeing it from sources I've found:

https://www.donutlab.com/about-us/

Marko Lehtimäki (CEO)

Ville Piippo

Haydn Baker



https://ee.linkedin.com/company/vergemotorcycles

• 
  Sari Laitinen
  
• 
  Petteri Lahtela
  
• 
  Marko Lehtimaki
  
• 
  Miklu Silvanto
  

Check again. Marko Lehtimäki, the guy from the video, is in both. Donut is a spin out of sorts from Verge. They did the motor.

Sponsored

 

[Setok]

It might be "real" but still not what we think. For instance, mass-production could be a problem.

I've seen some online suggest that it's actually a supercapacitor, which can meet those specs but with a rapid self-discharge.

Then again, we've been fooled before. Remember Trevor Milton and "Nikola"?

Production supercapacitors also don’t have anywhere near the energy density claimed here. So if it is, it is still a major breakthrough.

Also I wouldn’t quite get the criticism of ‘Ha Ha not a battery’. I mean if a supercapacitor does the job, great! I wouldn’t be picky.

Donut in the marketing material refer to a battery. However Nordic Nano’s materials do mention a capacitor (Donut has invested in them — another Finnish company). So go figure.

 

[BannedByTMC]

Check again. Marko Lehtimäki, the guy from the video, is in both. Donut is a spin out of sorts from Verge. They did the motor.

Yes, I said "some of the same people", so far that seems to equal *one* person. Again, they are different companies operating in different countries, Verge has operations in multiple countries.

So our choices are multiple people in multiple companies in multiple countries are all in on it, or they've all been fooled by Marko, or it's real. Even if we say both Donut and Verge are all in on it, what is the motivation for Watt EV's to be in on it, or to accept what has been said at face value without verification before they put it in their products? The degree of collusion needed to create a scam seems as unlikely as all the claims Donut makes about their battery.

 

[BannedByTMC]

Donut in the marketing material refer to a battery. However Nordic Nano’s materials do mention a capacitor (Donut has invested in them — another Finnish company). So go figure.

There is this statement:

There has been speculation online that Donut Lab is using technology from another Finnish startup, Nordic Nano, a renewable energy company that Donut Lab has invested in. Lehtimaki even serves as a board member at Nordic Nano, but says that’s not the source of this product. “It’s not from them,” he says.

https://www.theverge.com/transportation/858514/is-this-the-worlds-first-solid-state-battery

 

[FarAway]

As a famous person once said, "Trust but verify."

Waiting for the verification.

 

[Setok]

Yes, I said "some of the same people", so far that seems to equal *one* person. Again, they are different companies operating in different countries, Verge has operations in multiple countries.

So our choices are multiple people in multiple companies in multiple countries are all in on it, or they've all been fooled by Marko, or it's real. Even if we say both Donut and Verge are all in on it, what is the motivation for Watt EV's to be in on it, or to accept what has been said at face value without verification before they put it in their products? The degree of collusion needed to create a scam seems as unlikely as all the claims Donut makes about their battery.

Watt is a fair point. But Donut and Verge are very, very tight. It makes no odds which country the companies are registered in. It’s not uncommon for Finns to register in Estonia for tax or other reasons. It’s a short boat ride across the sea Plus everything is online anyway.

The merits of the battery can be debated but to paint Donut and Verge as anything but very close buddies would not be accurate.

 

[Setok]

There is this statement:



https://www.theverge.com/transportation/858514/is-this-the-worlds-first-solid-state-battery

Yeah, I saw that. I would find it extremely surprising if Nordic Nano doesn’t have a role here give the close relations and common ground. The statement is thus definitely surprising.

It’s possible they consider it a Donut battery (I mean that’s what it’s branded as anyway), and thus ‘not Nordic Nano’, even if it uses Nordic Nano tech in some key way. But happy to be proven wrong if and when it comes out.

 

[BannedByTMC]

I don't know if I'll be more surprised if it's real or if it's the most pointless scam ever created.

Still...

 

[CyberGus]

You were soooo close

 

[BannedByTMC]

Some real investigative journalism adds some color as to how this might be possible:

 

[BannedByTMC]

Munro interview with Verge:

 

[BannedByTMC]

Mention of another company working with them, Corvus, building trailers with motors and batteries.

 

[Setok]

This Finnish article has a few tidbits. Here at least the Nordic Nano boss is stating it is *not* a super capacitor (as that would leak energy).

https://yle.fi/a/74-20204159

 

[BannedByTMC]

An older article from the same site, from 2 years ago, sure sounds like Nordic Nano tech is what Donut is using:

"Next year, Nordic Nano Group, a Finnish company that manufactures a new kind of battery technology, will start its test production in Imatra.

The company's main products are solar panel coatings and non-toxic batteries made of the same material."

"The mass used in nanoprinting is also utilised in the battery cells manufactured by Nordic Nano Group, where the energy is stored.

It replaces the lithium of an element typically used in the batteries of cars and mobile phones.

"These nano-accumulator cells can withstand tens of thousands of charges and can hold more energy. They are also fire safe and cannot explode, Parjanen says."

https://yle.fi/a/74-20118784

 

[Setok]

A new article from the Finnish public broadcaster digs out details about the finances of the Verge motorbike company, describing finances being in such a mess that the auditor refused to sign the financial statements. Things like missing inventory management and missing sales receipts mean, according to the auditor, no means of validating claimed revenues and balance sheet. It goes on to state that the continuing operation of the company depends on 'ongoing funding discussions' which do not currently have solid commitments.

Verge is very closely related to Donut Lab. Now, it is worth pointing out that startups can get into tricky financial situations, even at the point of breakthroughs (though I have personally not seen finances so messy as to have an auditor refuse to validate). If they do have a breakthrough, I hope the funding materialises. Too often big innovation in Europe struggles for lack of heavy funding. However, the flip side of this is that difficult situations can prompt people to push for hype and vapourware, in the hope of closing something.

https://yle.fi/a/74-20205916

Sponsored