Extended battery effect on Tow Rating

[Hemsing6]

I would imagine the extended range battery reduces cargo capacity as it has weight and takes up space but does it change the 11000 lbs tow rating?

 

[ldjessee]

I would think not, but I am no expert.

 

[cvalue13]

I would imagine the extended range battery reduces cargo capacity as it has weight and takes up space but does it change the 11000 lbs tow rating?

Yes and no

Yes in that the RE weight will count towards the truck’s payload, and for safe towing you subtract the trailer tongue weight from the payload

Rough assumption is the RE will weight ~700lbs. So it reduces “max”** payload to 1,800lb

CT max tongue weight is 1,100 lbs

Ao assuming you have a properly balanced 11,000lb trailer, exerting 1.100lb tongue weight on a truck with 1,800lb payload …

in that situation, a truck with RE has 700lb payload left instead of 1,400lb payload.

700lb payload means a couple of adults and a couple of kids doesn’t leave much for bags



**however, seems possible Tesla is sandbagging it’s payload, so on that view even if you technically have only 700lb of stated 2,500lb payload, you might still have plenty of unstated real payload left

 

[François-Pascal]

So if I want to tow a fifth wheel that is more than 11000 lbs I will need to by the semi?

 

[Hemsing6]

If your vehicle exceeds a certain GVWR you’ll need a CDL license in the us been a while but I think the weight is 26000 lbs

 

[cvalue13]

So if I want to tow a fifth wheel that is more than 11000 lbs I will need to by the semi?

regardless of the 11Klb, it does not seem the CyberTruck is physically set up well for most any 5th wheel currently in production

For one, under the truck bed is no obvious way to secure hitch to casting

For another, the height of the “sails” would interfere with even minimal turning clearance

And maybe most problematic: the roof of the truck is only 59 inches from the tailgate - a full ~10” closer than say an F150 with a 5.5’ bed

 

[Keeney]

The key number is the GCWR - Gross Combined Weight Rating. This is what sets the available towing capacity. You only get the max tow capacity with ZERO payload in the truck. GCWR - Empty Curb Weight = Max Tow Rating.

Every lb of payload in the truck subtracts from the remaining GCWR available for towing. Payload includes passengers and the driver. If you have 4 x 200 lb occupants and another 500 lb of luggage, and a 700 lb range extender, you only have 9000 lbs remaining towing capacity to stay under your GCWR.

Also as mentioned by others, payload impacts the available tongue weight remaining. If you subtract the above example 2000 lbs of occupants, luggage and range extender from the 2500 lb payload rating, you are only left with 500 lbs of tongue weight. Since you need at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue to be stable, that would limit you to a 5000 lb gross trailer.

If you are trying to figure out how heavy of a thing you can haul ON or IN the trailer, you also need to remember that the weight of the trailer itself counts against the GCWR and tow rating. People new to towing often are caught by surprise as to how heavy the trailer itself is. A small utility trailer or boat trailer is easily around 800-1500 lbs just for the trailer. Medium equipment trailers and enclosed car haulers might be closer to 3000 lbs empty. Small 2-horse trailers start around 2500 lbs empty and go up from there. There are additional regulations for trailers that kick in at 10,000 lbs. You may find a lot of trailers rated for 9,999 lbs gross weight.

If the thing you are hauling is a boat, its undoubtedly NOT going to be at its empty weight. That full tank of fuel you just filled up on your way to the lake could add a few hundred lbs. Plus all the added electronics, trolling motor and batteries, anchors, etc. Don't forget the cooler weight.

If you are hauling an RV or camper trailer, you need to account for its dry weight plus all the stuff you load into it. Including water, propane, luggage, toys, food, and gray water / black water tanks.

Don't forget to account for any add-on accessories and stuff you carry around in your truck like tools, racks, bed dividers, covers, floor mats, upgraded larger wheels/tires, emergency supplies. On the CT you might also have to account for the spare tire if added.

 

[ldjessee]

I am sure someone will come up with a way to do a fifth wheel.

If you can take out the vault storage bin like you can on the Model 3/Y, that might expose some mount points?

 

[cvalue13]

I am sure someone will come up with a way to do a fifth wheel.

If you can take out the vault storage bin like you can on the Model 3/Y, that might expose some mount points?

mounting points are sort of the least of the challenges

 

[Rutrow]

Additional payload can increase the amount a vehicle can safely tow, but it isn't linear. Additional downforce can improve stopping distance and evasive maneuver stability, which I think with BEVs is the factor that influences the upper limit of their tow rating. The SAE J-2807 tow rating standard has minimum acceleration components (that electric trucks will NEVER come close to failing) and overheating tests that EVs should also not have a problem with. The tow rating for EV trucks will come down to skid pad testing and the ability to bring the load to a halt. In both of these tests, weight can help... until it hurts. Weight means better traction until it's inertia approaches and passes its diminishing returns.

Explanation of the SAE J-2807 tests

 

[JBee]

Gooseneck with a high enough riser would probably work. Connection points could possibly be on the upper side of the rear motor sub frame. You could even make it a bit aerodynamic.

But I'd prefer a travel trailer with a telescopic hitch, and put a pop up camper on the CT for day trips, which also helps for aero.

 

[SentinelOne]

The key number is the GCWR - Gross Combined Weight Rating. This is what sets the available towing capacity. You only get the max tow capacity with ZERO payload in the truck. GCWR - Empty Curb Weight = Max Tow Rating.

Every lb of payload in the truck subtracts from the remaining GCWR available for towing. Payload includes passengers and the driver. If you have 4 x 200 lb occupants and another 500 lb of luggage, and a 700 lb range extender, you only have 9000 lbs remaining towing capacity to stay under your GCWR.

Also as mentioned by others, payload impacts the available tongue weight remaining. If you subtract the above example 2000 lbs of occupants, luggage and range extender from the 2500 lb payload rating, you are only left with 500 lbs of tongue weight. Since you need at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue to be stable, that would limit you to a 5000 lb gross trailer.

If you are trying to figure out how heavy of a thing you can haul ON the trailer, you also need to remember that the weight of the trailer itself counts against the GCWR and tow rating. A small utility trailer or boat trailer is probably around 1000 lbs just for the trailer. Larger equipment trailers might be well over 3000 lbs empty.

If you are hauling an RV or camper trailer, you need to account for its dry weight plus all the stuff you load into it. Including water, propane, luggage, toys, food, and gray water / black water tanks.

Don't forget to account for any add-on accessories and stuff you carry around in your truck like tools, racks, bed dividers, covers, floor mats, upgraded larger wheels/tires, emergency supplies. On the CT you might also have to account for the spare tire if added.

Yeah, im just going to keep my 2500 diesel for towing and use this for my everyday (aka replace my M3P that I use for everyday now)...there's just 0 margin / too many limitations to keep within the certified boundaries of the CT (vs. my big ass toy hauler, SxS/Dirtbikes, etc)...that and real world usable range on a 301mi rating (AT Tires/Beast) will be miserable for a truck in Colorado with elevation, winter and 75+mph highways (it's the same range as my 2019 M3P at 300mi and its ok for commuting and daily but wouldn't want to drive it all over the state with heavy cargo or towing)...

regardless CT>M3P because I can still take to some of my weekend dirt bike places, can go off-roading at select places, can still commute in it and bigger/more comfy, etc.....jsut cant go from 2 vehicles to 1 as I was desiring to do

 

[ldjessee]

Something like this?

 

[Rutrow]

I am sure someone will come up with a way to do a fifth wheel.

If you can take out the vault storage bin like you can on the Model 3/Y, that might expose some mount points?

I was planning a Full Time 5th wheel RV retirement when the CyberTruck was announced and started brainstorming a way to overcome the inherent problems the CyberTruck would have with a 5th wheel trailer. When I was still thinking I'd have to resort back to an ICE truck for my RV life I had already decided that spoiling the bed with a massive 5th wheel mount was undesirable for my use case because my plan was to spend weeks, to a month or more, between travel days. I want to really get to know a place, experience everything it has to offer, before loading up and heading off again. This means that dragging a heavy mount in the bed unused is a waste of space and weight on day trips. The best solution is using a Reese Goosebox Pinbox on the trailer so all you need in the bed is a ball hitch (easy to pop out).

Next problem is the obstruction caused by the CTs sail pillars. Those will cause problems when turning sharply and virtually eliminate the ability to jackknife when backing a trailer, which is absolutely essential when negotiating tight RV campground sites. BUT... the CyberTruck's independent air suspension system and the Reese Goosebox's air dampener can mitigate a LOT of the problems with the sail pillars.

If the CyberTruck's computer was programmed in "5th wheel mode" to dip the suspension on the side inside of turns, the sail pillar could dip out of the way on normal turns.

When backing the trailer, the CyberTruck could adopt an extreme Cheetah Stance that would serve to flatten out the problematic angle of the sail pillars. Granted, this would be at the expense of the departure angle of the travel trailer you're backing, and dragging the bumper off a travel trailer isn't a rare accident. You'd have to be really careful in these circumstances. An adjustable air suspension on your RV may be the best bet ($$$ ?)

Back in the good old days when we thought Tesla would provide an air connection in the bed of the CyberTruck tapping off the suspension compressor, I thought an extra airbag on the Reese Goosebox could also raise the overhang of the trailer in tight spots. But alas, the air-chuck didn't survive the design process. ??

 

[Keeney]

Yeah, im just going to keep my 2500 diesel for towing and use this for my everyday (aka replace my M3P that I use for everyday now)...there's just 0 margin / too many limitations to keep within the certified boundaries of the CT (vs. my big ass toy hauler, SxS/Dirtbikes, etc)...that and real world usable range on a 301mi rating (AT Tires/Beast) will be miserable for a truck in Colorado with elevation, winter and 75+mph highways (it's the same range as my 2019 M3P at 300mi and its ok for commuting and daily but wouldn't want to drive it all over the state with heavy cargo or towing)...

regardless CT>M3P because I can still take to some of my weekend dirt bike places, can go off-roading at select places, can still commute in it and bigger/more comfy, etc.....jsut cant go from 2 vehicles to 1 as I was desiring to do

If towing is only an occasional thing, it might be more effective to sell the 2500 and rent one on the weekend when you need to tow distances.

I always wanted to keep the capability to tow my boats to far away bodies of water like the WI Dells, or a buddy's cabin up north. We only ever did it a couple times. When I bought my F150L, I quickly figured out that I should sell my 2500 and just rent an HD truck if we want to take the boats any distance. Then I also realized we could just rent a boat when we get there instead. So far, the plan is working great. The F150L is great for local towing, even in the winter, even on the freeway. Just need to keep the towing range in mind and plan ahead accordingly (i.e. remember to charge fully the night before). I am sure the CT will be great for local towing as well.