AWD Model vs Cyberbeast

[Cpt. Picard]

Everything you stated is disproven by the Raptor/TRX market, Before that it was the Lightnin/Ram SRT10, before that it was the GMC Syclone.

my point is there has always been a market for niche trucks , these trucks don’t have the same everyday working functionality of the normal working man’s truck and they price has always reflexed it.

From that perspective the CB is a far more “ useful “ to its market than the AWD is. The AWD isn’t as fast, still gets less miles than a traditional truck, tow range is less than a traditional truck all while costing more than a traditional truck that can do more.

Just so we are clear I am not bashing the CT at all, I’m just stating it’s definitely a niche truck and it’s party truck is the speed so getting the faster truck makes the most sense and holds the lost value , just like a Raptor R command a premium over a Regular Raptor.

The only thing that Raptor/TRX market has proven is that money is more abundant than brains.

How did the Raptor/TRX market disprove payload compromise. Oh, wait a second, it didn't disprove it, it proved it! How did the Raptor/TRX market disprove the importance of good old trusted solutions (like mechanical lockers)? You guessed it again, they actually proved it to be true.

What you are saying is that there is a market for it. I agree, there is a market for peeps too. That wasn't my argument. People here are claiming that their CB is a superior truck. Sorry guys, it ain't by any measure.

Sponsored

 

[Kaz109]

The only thing that Raptor/TRX market has proven is that money is more abundant than brains.

Well thought out reply lol, ironically enough the same can be said about the CT market. If you don’t see that you haven’t been around the block

 

[Kaz109]

There is also a HUGE segment of truck buyers that don’t use their trucks as “work trucks” and aren’t “Raptor” guys.. these are men/dads and women I suppose in more urban/suburban areas that have families, enjoy some novice-type adventures and need a truck (say Lariat or that range for other OEMs) for basic truck things (occasional lumber, carrying bikes, etc, but like the room of a larger SUV. These full cab Trucks provide that. That is what the CT AWD is (esp priced in the 70k). Trust me, I was a small town kid who lives in a metropolitan over 1.5 millions. I know how small town people use trucks and I see a crap ton of people who drive trucks in the ‘burbs.. it’s a huge market that the CT cuts (or will cut non-FS) right into that market.. in fact, I would argue that is their market and it is a huge one all over metropolitan/suburb areas

Understand what you are saying I just fundamentally disagree with you. You can get a F-150 for 20k cheaper than a Non FS AWD and it will do all the same things a AWD CT will do including a longer range of travel both towing and non towing .

make no mistake , the CT is a niche product

 

[Cpt. Picard]

Understand what you are saying I just fundamentally disagree with you. You can get a F-150 for 20k cheaper than a Non FS AWD and it will do all the same things a AWD CT will do including a longer range of travel both towing and non towing .

We are comparing EVs to each other here; You can get a horse for much less that has virtually unlimited range (until it drops dead).

make no mistake , the CT is a niche product

2M outstanding orders is by no means a niche figure.

 

[CyberTW]

Understand what you are saying I just fundamentally disagree with you. You can get a F-150 for 20k cheaper than a Non FS AWD and it will do all the same things a AWD CT will do including a longer range of travel both towing and non towing .

make no mistake , the CT is a niche product

And if you think the CT will stay at 79k for the next 5 years, you don’t know Tesla enough. It is niche right now. But I am telling you, that 55-75K market for trucks in metropolitans huge, and price isn’t nearly as big as an issue for people in those areas.. hence why you find so many Lariats. Especially when maintenance and fuel savings, and the shock of the design becomes more normal. I am the market and I know the type of people like me in the markets…will it ever pass the basic F150…maybe maybe not. It will never be like an optionless f150 work truck, and it will never be a toy hauler. I don’t know if it will ever take over best selling truck, but I imagine you are the same type of person that said Tesla will never have a best selling car… enter Model Y (in less that 4 years accomplished it)… so niche it all you want, just like the Y but I wholeheartedly disagree

 

[Macgyverfever]

The other forum about out of spec Kyle's 15k review has some interesting things to say about ride quality and drive train for awd vs cyberbeast that is worth reading as well.

I just watched well over half of that episode and agree with Kyle. I gotta say, I'm not in a beast which is what I originally wanted, but I'm just beside myself with this AWD CT. The handling, the acceleration = wow. I came from a MYP and couldn't be happier with the acceleration. I feel so powerful on the road, and having this truck bed (adjustable lights) and outlets, the extra-wide space for my 3 children in the back compared to the MY, the sound system (omg the sound system - I've never heard songs hit like that). I just couldn't be happier. I get the beast is faster but this thing is an insane joygasm. Foundation series people will snub at but I humbly skipped a 2-4 year line and guaranteed myself to have full self driving and premium connectivity for life regardless of how much Tesla jacks prices up.

I'm keeping this damn truck forever and never looking back.

 

[SentinelOne]

Yeah, but I couldn't have my truck be slower than my wife's ICE SUV...nor let her active rear diff out torque vector me, nor have her in a more expensive car.....so beast! .

In all seriousness, day 112 waiting for VIN, considering switching to AWD to shorten the wait, driving me crazy and while I'll happily spend the extra $20k for a beast and am somewhat truthful with above, I'm tired of waiting...must hold on...

 

[Speedr]

Yeah, but I couldn't have my truck be slower than my wife's ICE SUV...nor let her active rear diff out torque vector me, nor have her in a more expensive car.....so beast! .

In all seriousness, day 112 waiting for VIN, considering switching to AWD to shorten the wait, driving me crazy and while I'll happily spend the extra $20k for a beast and am somewhat truthful with above, I'm tired of waiting...must hold on...

What ICE SUV?

 

[Speedr]

I just watched well over half of that episode and agree with Kyle. I gotta say, I'm not in a beast which is what I originally wanted, but I'm just beside myself with this AWD CT. The handling, the acceleration = wow. I came from a MYP and couldn't be happier with the acceleration. I feel so powerful on the road, and having this truck bed (adjustable lights) and outlets, the extra-wide space for my 3 children in the back compared to the MY, the sound system (omg the sound system - I've never heard songs hit like that). I just couldn't be happier. I get the beast is faster but this thing is an insane joygasm. Foundation series people will snub at but I humbly skipped a 2-4 year line and guaranteed myself to have full self driving and premium connectivity for life regardless of how much Tesla jacks prices up.

I'm keeping this damn truck forever and never looking back.

The single reason why I'm not that distraught about getting the AWD over the Cyberbeast is the default drive axle that powers the truck:

AWD is Rear
Cyberbeast is Front

So when driving or not accelerating very aggressively, the AWD is a RWD, while the Cyberbeast is a FWD.

Full disclosure: I had originally ordered the tri-motor, but changed it to AWD to get it sooner. Since I've had mine since the end of February, I can't complain!

 

[SentinelOne]

What ICE SUV?

She has an GLE AMG right now and pickup a new SQ7 (with sport package - aka rear diff) on friday....so we'll both have rear steering, hers will sound better! Tried to get her in a new Tri R1S but let's just say she's not onboard with EV's just yet.

 

[Arctic_White]

There is one major thing that I think half of the folks here do not understand. The CT/CB is that unique EV that drew people who are not EV enthusiasts, not sea turtle lovers, not geeks or any other typical stereotype associated with EV crowds. The segment of the market I'm talking about are those who appreciate capable trucks and look for functionality in the vehicle first and for most. When you bring an argument about torque and hp and 0-60 time and whatnot it's clear to me that you are from the regular EV crowd, or a kid with a rich daddy. And there is nothing wrong with being from the EV crowd, or being a kid (rich or poor), or being a sea turtle lover for that matter; except when you start arguing about things that are out of your element.

Trucks are tools, and tools are critiqued based on functionality and reliability. Now, discussing the reliability aspect of it is a waste of time at the moment, because that discussion shouldn't start till after five years or so. The functionality discussion however is right down the alley of this thread.

So, let's discuss what does the CB bring to the table that CT can't deliver in the scope of functionality. As far as I'm aware, and PLEASE enlighten me if I am missing something here, the only advantaged is the "beastly" torque and the 240+ hp. Right off the bat your extra hp doesn't matter, because it never did for trucks and it will never do. No one who has done some work with a truck cares about your CB going up to 130 mph top speed. Heck, we don't even care that the CT go up to 114 mph. As for torque, If the CT struggled by even the slightest bit in any application while pulling or hauling a heavy load then your extra torque would be a valuable addition to this function of the truck. However, every experienced trucker will tell you that applying more than enough torque needed under a serious load is a fool's game. So, that extra torque, which the CB undoubtedly has, is irrelevant for men (now for boys... well, all kinds of nonsense is relevant for boys).

That's it, there is nothing else to discuss that could possibly bring value to the table. Yet this is where the bad news begin:

1. The CB is about 240 lbs heavier. Now this is really a double negative, and I'm sure you are thinking that the biggest problem here is that it eats through the max range of the truck, but in reality the bigger problem is that it cuts the payload by at least that much. So the CT has a max payload of 2,500 lbs, but the CB has a max payload of about 2,260 lbs or less. So, here you have two huge negatives already that are functional hits on the truck.

2. Dual motor configuration of the rear wheels doesn't allow the CB to have a rear locker. Yes, it still has a front locker which will probably get the work done in most cases, and yes it does have a simulated rear locker through the coordinated control of the independent motors by the software, but the problem here is that a locker is one of those things that doesn't have a substitute, and unless you understand things like why naturally aspirated vehicle will always be superior over a turbo or supercharged engine then this just went over your head and you are clueless of why I'm saying it matters. Just remember these words when your rear locker simulation doesn't work for some reason when you need it and you wish you had a simple locker to engage (hopefully you'll never be in that situation because it is no fun. I've gotten stuck once like that, and if I wasn't driving a serious vehicle, a 4Runner Pro that had a rear locker, I would never get out of there alone.) And whoever says that only CB gets torque vectoring because of the dual motor rear configuration is dead wrong. The torque vectoring can be and is achieved by both CT and CB.

3. Well, the third one is something no one can argue against: you blow away $20K so that you can go 0-60 in under 3 seconds, and if you are man enough to be honest about that I salute thee, but don't come around trying to tell those who know a thing or two about trucks how you are getting the more superior truck. LOL

While you have raised several interesting and valid points, and almost convinced me to not get the Beast, the fact of the matter is that $20K price difference is more than made up when it comes time to sell the Cybertruck.

Here are few other points you missed, other than just going "fast":
1) Beast is more rare
2) Beast will have way better resale value
3) It will be far easier and quicker to sell the Beast
4) Exclusivity
5) If you could have only one vehicle, the Beast would fit the bill just fine. Rather than a sports car & a regular Cybertruck, it is more economical to just combine the two and get one

To you, owning a "faster" Cybertruck might be a sign of ego or insecurity, but for me, it is the ultimate symbol of what I have overcome and accomplished.

 

[Arctic_White]

And if you think the CT will stay at 79k for the next 5 years, you don’t know Tesla enough. It is niche right now. But I am telling you, that 55-75K market for trucks in metropolitans huge, and price isn’t nearly as big as an issue for people in those areas.. hence why you find so many Lariats. Especially when maintenance and fuel savings, and the shock of the design becomes more normal. I am the market and I know the type of people like me in the markets…will it ever pass the basic F150…maybe maybe not. It will never be like an optionless f150 work truck, and it will never be a toy hauler. I don’t know if it will ever take over best selling truck, but I imagine you are the same type of person that said Tesla will never have a best selling car… enter Model Y (in less that 4 years accomplished it)… so niche it all you want, just like the Y but I wholeheartedly disagree

How many Cybertrucks has Tesla indicated they would build? 125K? If it's that low, that is a "niche" player as we have F-150, Silverado/Sierra twins, and RAM 1500 that sell in the millions combined.

Even if Tesla doubles the production to 250K per year, that still isn't moving the needle much.

I doubt that Tesla produces more than 250K per year but could, depending on the demand.

How many do you think Tesla will eventually produce per year?

 

[CyberTW]

How many Cybertrucks has Tesla indicated they would build? 125K? If it's that low, that is a "niche" player as we have F-150, Silverado/Sierra twins, and RAM 1500 that sell in the millions combined.

Even if Tesla doubles the production to 250K per year, that still isn't moving the needle much.

I doubt that Tesla produces more than 250K per year but could, depending on the demand.

How many do you think Tesla will eventually produce per year?

Ok fair, but those 150-250k eat into the others correct? And a Tacoma sold 230k in 2023. GMC Sierra 295K. Does that mean the Tacoma and Sierra are niche? Maybe our definitions of niche are vastly different. Niche to me is a Porsche, but to you guys it’s a Tacoma? Ok I can just disagree with our definitions of niche and move on with this convo

 

[Arctic_White]

Ok fair, but those 150-250k eat into the others correct? And a Tacoma sold 230k in 2023. GMC Sierra 295K. Does that mean the Tacoma and Sierra are niche? Maybe our definitions of niche are vastly different. Niche to me is a Porsche, but to you guys it’s a Tacoma?

We are talking about the same thing then.

Put another way, I don't think that the Cybertruck will be # 1 in truck market share, though it will very easily be the # 1 EV truck this year alone.

250K would 100% eat into others and Ford/GM better start producing more EV trucks or else they will continue to lose market share and then eventually would need to get bailed out.

Most folks don't realize this but GM/Ford/Toyota and many legacy automakers are completely and utterly facked.

 

[CyberTW]

We are talking about the same thing then.

Put another way, I don't think that the Cybertruck will be # 1 in truck market share, though it will very easily be the # 1 EV truck this year alone.

250K would 100% eat into others and Ford/GM better start producing more EV trucks or else they will continue to lose market share and then eventually would need to get bailed out.

Most folks don't realize this but GM/Ford/Toyota and many legacy automakers are completely and utterly facked.

Got it. Ya F150 is a beast of sales. It would be many years out if ever that it beats the F150 series.

Sponsored