Why shouldn't I Cancel My CT order and purchase the Chevy EV?

[HaulingAss]

You could charge the battery to the same KwH as the CT and get roughly the same range. Again, this isn't a great talking point. The Silverado is the only EV that suits long range driving and towing. That's not for everyone, but it's important for some.

Also, on fast chargers, the Silverado actually charges faster than the CT (currently). It has an insane charging curve and holds high rates of charge longer than any vehicle on the market.

There is a lot that's wrong here.

The Silverado is *much* less efficient. That means you cannot go as far with the same amount of energy. I'm not sure why you are confused on that. They will absolutely *not* get almost the same range on the same amount of energy.

Also, while you can make a seemingly logical case that the Silverado is better for towing large trailers long-distances, you still need access to a reliable charging network. And the Silverado doesn't do any better on current Superchargers than the Cybertruck in terms of miles of range added per hour of charging. Nor can it use all of the Superchargers, not even close, even if you have an adapter. That just means you will end up using less dependable DCFC'ers.

Sure, you're going to be stopping close to twice as often in the Cybertruck but, if you do it right, the stops will be about 35% faster. It's not going to be as much better for long-distance, large trailer hauling than people seem to think. Better, yes, not massively better, due in part to the current state of DCFC infrastructure. Most people who want to tow large trailers long-distances are still better off with an ICE tow rig.

Your other claim, that the Silverado will be better for long range driving (without a trailer) is not true. Your charge stops will be fewer but longer. The superior highway efficiency of the Cybertruck will not only cost a lot less to charge, but it will also make your stops more like a typical road-trip rest break. And the use of the entire Supercharger Network, instead of Electrify America, and the rest, throws the advantage squarely to the Cybertruck. Not only will you be buying less electricity, but the average price per kWh will also be less too.

People think the Cybertruck is more expensive. The energy savings alone over the useful life of the truck says that's not true, even just from a purely financial perspective. How about road trip safety? You know, death and serious injury potential. The Cybertruck is the clear choice.

How about secure storage? The Cybertruck has more, and it's easier to use. I wouldn't even call the Silverado bed storage secure; a sharp pocketknife will silently open it wide open. The last thing you want to do on a road-trip is feel nervous about your large valuables in the bed anytime the truck is out of your sight. And rainwater pools on top of the soft tonneau, making it messy to access your bed after a rain. The tonneau cover is a throw-away, meant only for aero, to allow them to claim the highest possible EPA range, for the least amount of money. The Cybertruck comes standard with the best tonneau in the truck market, without a doubt.

As to your other claim, that the Silverado charges faster:

Only on a per kWh basis. On a miles added per hour basis, the only metric that matters on a road trip, they charge very close to the same speed, on average. The difference is almost insignificant. And as soon as version 4 Supercharger cabinets roll out, the situation will likely be reversed.

Plus, you have to count the time it takes to hook up to the DCFC. If you go to an Electrify America station, and both stalls are full, you have to count that time too. You might even need to drive to another DCFC, something that's much rarer when you are in a Tesla.

In summary, I don't think the long-distance advantage is really there, especially considering that towing a large trailer long-distances is going to be less than suitable with either. People are focusing too much on the ideal, on the perfect scenario, and not on the real world experience.

The range advantage of the Silverado is not all it's cracked up to be. Because Superchargers.

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[SCTesla]

There is a lot that's wrong here.

The Silverado is *much* less efficient. That means you cannot go as far with the same amount of energy. I'm not sure why you are confused on that. They will absolutely *not* get almost the same range on the same amount of energy.

Also, while you can make a seemingly logical case that the Silverado is better for towing large trailers long-distances, you still need access to a reliable charging network. And the Silverado doesn't do any better on current Superchargers than the Cybertruck in terms of miles of range added per hour of charging. Nor can it use all of the Superchargers, not even close, even if you have an adapter. That just means you will end up using less dependable DCFC'ers.

Sure, you're going to be stopping close to twice as often in the Cybertruck but, if you do it right, the stops will be about 35% faster. It's not going to be as much better for long-distance, large trailer hauling than people seem to think. Better, yes, not massively better, due in part to the current state of DCFC infrastructure. Most people who want to tow large trailers long-distances are still better off with an ICE tow rig.

Your other claim, that the Silverado will be better for long range driving (without a trailer) is not true. Your charge stops will be fewer but longer. The superior highway efficiency of the Cybertruck will not only cost a lot less to charge, but it will also make your stops more like a typical road-trip rest break. And the use of the entire Supercharger Network, instead of Electrify America, and the rest, throws the advantage squarely to the Cybertruck. Not only will you be buying less electricity, but the average price per kWh will also be less too.

People think the Cybertruck is more expensive. The energy savings alone over the useful life of the truck says that's not true, even just from a purely financial perspective. How about road trip safety? You know, death and serious injury potential. The Cybertruck is the clear choice.

How about secure storage? The Cybertruck has more, and it's easier to use. I wouldn't even call the Silverado bed storage secure; a sharp pocketknife will silently open it wide open. The last thing you want to do on a road-trip is feel nervous about your large valuables in the bed anytime the truck is out of your sight. And rainwater pools on top of the soft tonneau, making it messy to access your bed after a rain. The tonneau cover is a throw-away, meant only for aero, to allow them to claim the highest possible EPA range, for the least amount of money. The Cybertruck comes standard with the best tonneau in the truck market, without a doubt.

As to your other claim, that the Silverado charges faster:

Only on a per kWh basis. On a miles added per hour basis, the only metric that matters on a road trip, they charge very close to the same speed, on average. The difference is almost insignificant. And as soon as version 4 Supercharger cabinets roll out, the situation will likely be reversed.

Plus, you have to count the time it takes to hook up to the DCFC. If you go to an Electrify America station, and both stalls are full, you have to count that time too. You might even need to drive to another DCFC, something that's much rarer when you are in a Tesla.

In summary, I don't think the long-distance advantage is really there, especially considering that towing a large trailer long-distances is going to be less than suitable with either. People are focusing too much on the ideal, on the perfect scenario, and not on the real world experience.

The range advantage of the Silverado is not all it's cracked up to be. Because Superchargers.

That's a lot of words creating hypothetical issues.

Yes, other chargers are not as reliable. I said that multiple times, but as many YTers and reviewers have shown, the Silverado is a great long distance driver and tower and even with the less reliable network, it's not like them or other EV owners cannot find working chargers. I drove a Lightning for a week and had 2 broken stalls, but never had to go find another charging stop. I just went to another stall.

The Silverado EV is made for long distance driving and towing. It does that better than the CT due to the massive battery. It serves its purpose. On a test where someone hit 85 miles in a CT, they had over 200 in the Silverado towing the same box trailer. That's pretty significant. The rest of the value proposition like secure tonneau vs. midgate is a matter of preference, but for someone who wants/needs to be able to tow or drive for long distances without stopping the Silverado is the best option on the market, currently.

Keep in mind the tow test through the mountains that Out of Spec conducted. Look at the efficiency towing the same load (a Model 3).



Silverado EV - 1st. 1 Stop. 1.3mi/kwh

R1T - 2nd. 4 Stops. ~1.3mi/kwh*

F150 - 3rd. 4 Stops. ~1.3mi/kwh*

Cybertruck - 4th. 5 Stops. ~1.3mi/kwh*

*R1T, F150, CT weren't directly stated in the video, but they were said to have all had "around 1.3 mi/kwh" after the fact.

Edit: It's also important to point out that the CT took a different direction and it routed to a L2 charger. They said the CT could have beaten the F150 if not for this.


The Silverado won by almost 4 hours. If that's not a significant savings, I'm not sure what is.

 

[HaulingAss]

The hummer was much more enjoyable to drive than the Silverado EV. Much softer experience on the road, both street and dirt. Crab walk was insanely fun and surprisingly useful on my narrow rural dirt roads with tight turns.

Crab walk is not useful on narrow rural dirt roads. At least not if you are using the word "useful" in the normal way.

 

[HaulingAss]

Here are real world results: (added from another thread after sorted)

Edit: As established, "Time sitting at charger" is irrelevant, because the Silverado charges faster than the CT, despite the much larger battery. This should change in the future, but right now the Silverado would cost more, but that's really the only charging/distance draw back. The payload, weight, feel, brakes, tires are all valid concerns.

Those numbers are not an accurate representation of what one could expect with the various vehicles for a number of reasons. Always take alleged "real world" numbers with a large grain of salt.

 

[SCTesla]

Those numbers are not an accurate representation of what one could expect with the various vehicles for a number of reasons. Always take alleged "real world" numbers with a large grain of salt.

That's ridiculous. When they do side by side test, film it, and then post the results. That's about as good as testing goes.

Tesla and Chevy do their EPA tests in completely different ways an the EPA hasn't validated either.

Range matters most when on the interstate and needing to travel a longer distance. That's why these test are so popular, it shows what people get in the real world with these vehicles.

That's like you bringing up safety, when neither vehicle has been rated, yet. The 2024 top safety pick for a truck is currently the Rivian.

You can say you don't like the Silverado EV and that's fine, but trying to skew actual tests that multiple neutral parties have confirmed is just an odd stance. Again, the Silverado is verifiably better at driving much further and having a shorter road trip at range, especially when towing. The CT is verifiably better at off-roading among other things. The CT, outside of it's polarizing looks, is a more useful overall product IMO, but the Silverado has it beat, by a pretty big margin, on long road trips.

 

[HaulingAss]

That's a lot of words creating hypothetical issues.

Yes, other chargers are not as reliable. I said that multiple times, but as many YTers and reviewers have shown, the Silverado is a great long distance driver and tower and even with the less reliable network, it's not like them or other EV owners cannot find working chargers. I drove a Lightning for a week and had 2 broken stalls, but never had to go find another charging stop. I just went to another stall.

The Silverado EV is made for long distance driving and towing. It does that better than the CT due to the massive battery. It serves its purpose. On a test where someone hit 85 miles in a CT, they had over 200 in the Silverado towing the same box trailer. That's pretty significant. The rest of the value proposition like secure tonneau vs. midgate is a matter of preference, but for someone who wants/needs to be able to tow or drive for long distances without stopping the Silverado is the best option on the market, currently.

Keep in mind the tow test through the mountains that Out of Spec conducted. Look at the efficiency towing the same load (a Model 3).



Silverado EV - 1st. 1 Stop. 1.3mi/kwh

R1T - 2nd. 4 Stops. ~1.3mi/kwh*

F150 - 3rd. 4 Stops. ~1.3mi/kwh*

Cybertruck - 4th. 5 Stops. ~1.3mi/kwh*

*R1T, F150, CT weren't directly stated in the video, but they were said to have all had "around 1.3 mi/kwh" after the fact.

Edit: It's also important to point out that the CT took a different direction and it routed to a L2 charger. They said the CT could have beaten the F150 if not for this.


The Silverado won by almost 4 hours. If that's not a significant savings, I'm not sure what is.

That route was chosen to show the Silverado (and Electrify America) in the best light relative to a Tesla. In case you are unaware, while Kyle tries to come across as not having any brand biases, it's pretty obvious he has a stick up his butt when it comes to Tesla. Probably because they won't give him any bennies, but I'm sure there are other reasons too, ones I don't know about. I've always found his numbers suspect because, while there are plenty of people doing the same thing he is, biasing the results, those results don't correlate well with more reliable testing I've seen that matches my first hand experiences better.

The same thing happened when he got an early Dual Motor Cybertruck. His results never put Tesla in a good light, even when Tesla has a massive advantage, his results will only show a small advantage. Tire pressure? Driving style? Who knows, I've just come to expect that from Kyle. He gives his bias away in other ways too, the language he uses, the way he phrases things, etc.

 

[SCTesla]

That route was chosen to show the Silverado (and Electrify America) in the best light relative to a Tesla. In case you are unaware, while Kyle tries to come across as not having any brand biases, it's pretty obvious he has a stick up his butt when it comes to Tesla. Probably because they won't give him any bennies, but I'm sure there are other reasons too, ones I don't know about. I've always found his numbers suspect because, while there are plenty of people doing the same thing he is, biasing the results, those results don't correlate well with more reliable testing I've seen that matches my first hand experiences better.

The same thing happened when he got an early Dual Motor Cybertruck. His results never put Tesla in a good light, even when Tesla has a massive advantage, his results will only show a small advantage. Tire pressure? Driving style? Who knows, I've just come to expect that from Kyle. He gives his bias away in other ways too, the language he uses, the way he phrases things, etc.

Most consider Kyle to be completely unbiased. You don't think you could be assigning that to him because his Tesla reviews don't show a massive advantage? The results are the results. He was incredibly positive on the refresh S/X and the Model 3 review. He states in almost every video that no one touches Tesla when it comes to ADAS or software, but actual range testing, the numbers are the numbers and others are getting the same results. They even show the screen.

 

[HaulingAss]

That's ridiculous. When they do side by side test, film it, and then post the results. That's about as good as testing goes.

Nope. Not if the people doing the testing have biases. Filming it doesn't prove anything. You just sound gullible.

That's like you bringing up safety, when neither vehicle has been rated, yet. The 2024 top safety pick for a truck is currently the Rivian.

Given what we know, the Cybertruck is obviously safer, both in being less likely to be in an accident due to it's better suspension and quicker handling and also in the technologies Tesla uses to keep the occupants safer. Maybe you are uneducated about this, that would be my guess. I don't have the time right now to explain it to you, just know that it's real.

Sure, it's possible either vehicle could have a safety flaw in the design that we don't know about, I'm just going by the things we do know.

You can say you don't like the Silverado EV and that's fine, but trying to skew actual tests that multiple neutral parties have confirmed is just an odd stance. Again, the Silverado is verifiably better at driving much further and having a shorter road trip at range, especially when towing. The CT is verifiably better at off-roading among other things. The CT, outside of it's polarizing looks, is a more useful overall product IMO, but the Silverado has it beat, by a pretty big margin, on long road trips.

Yes, the Silverado's range is considerably longer. But people who haven't travelled extensively by EV tend to forget the real-world importance of charging infrastructure, and how that impacts the road trip. That's 90% of what I'm saying right there. I'm sorry if you don't get that, or don't agree with that. The world is not all specs, at some point those specs have to play out using actual chargers, on actual routes. Your experience will vary widely depending upon your route and the state of the charging infrastructure on that route during your trip.

You seemed overly focused on the maximum specs while minimizing the poor state of the charging infrastructure.

 

[HaulingAss]

Most consider Kyle to be completely unbiased. You don't think you could be assigning that to him because his Tesla reviews don't show a massive advantage? The results are the results. He was incredibly positive on the refresh S/X and the Model 3 review. He states in almost every video that no one touches Tesla when it comes to ADAS or software, but actual range testing, the numbers are the numbers and others are getting the same results. They even show the screen.

Look at how he couches his language, you can learn a lot about someone's biases by that. I'll remind you that no one is completely unbiased and strict controls must be in place to minimize that in testing, something Kyle is not very good at. All of his testing is just "winging it".

I don't even think he followed the manufacturers recommended tire pressure of 65psi when towing a heavy trailer over the mountains in his Cybertruck. Sure, it did great, but not as well as it could have.

 

[SCTesla]

I see your argument as doing what you are accusing me of.

The real world range tests are far more beneficial than the specs of battery size, drag coefficient, EPA range, etc.

There's a reason why in the real world the Lucid Air gets almost 200 more miles than a Model S, despite their EPA numbers being 98 miles apart from each other.

I've already said the Tesla charging network is a massive win for the CT, but it's also a fact that a Silverado will travel longer and have a shorter overall trip at long ranges, especially when hauling than a CT. They are different tools. The Silverado EV is really the only viable truck for long distance towing, but for me...I'd still rather just get an ICE truck if that was my primary need.

The CT fits my needs and I love the looks better than the rest of the options. The F150 is probably 2nd, but we can appreciate a benefit of one vehicle, like Rivian's gear cam, storage options, or Ford/Chevy's frunk and that doesn't minimize the CT at all. It's not better in every way and that's fine...none of them are.

 

[SCTesla]

Look at how he couches his language, you can learn a lot about someone's biases by that. I'll remind you that no one is completely unbiased and strict controls must be in place to minimize that in testing, something Kyle is not very good at. All of his testing is just "winging it".

I don't even think he followed the manufacturers recommended tire pressure of 65psi when towing a heavy trailer over the mountains in his Cybertruck. Sure, it did great, but not as well as it could have.

It did exactly what most predicted, it was right in line with the F150/Rivian, but way behind the Silverado. That's the reality of the situation. If the Silverado gets a reliable charger it has a lot more range and charges faster (faster from 0-100, not just faster adding miles). That's a fact for now.

 

[HaulingAss]

Here are real world results: (added from another thread after sorted)

Edit: As established, "Time sitting at charger" is irrelevant, because the Silverado charges faster than the CT, despite the much larger battery. This should change in the future, but right now the Silverado would cost more, but that's really the only charging/distance draw back. The payload, weight, feel, brakes, tires are all valid concerns.

Those are very wonky numbers for the Cybertruck, if they are supossed to represent steady state consumption numbers at each speed. My stock Cybertruck Dual Motor gets far better than 438 Wh/mile at 70 mph.

Do you have a link to the claimed conditions and methodology used?

 

[SCTesla]

Those are very wonky numbers for the Cybertruck, if they are supossed to represent steady state consumption numbers at each speed. My stock Cybertruck Dual Motor gets far better than 438 Wh/mile at 70 mph.

Do you have a link to the claimed conditions and methodology used?

That chart was posted here many times, but I get about 468 wh/mi at 70mph in South Carolina. Seems common from the local CT chapter, but there are only 6 of us.

Edit: Looking at my last trip that 468 is 75 mph, but considering the 5mph jump, I'm in the same ballpark.

 

[HaulingAss]

It did exactly what most predicted, it was right in line with the F150/Rivian, but way behind the Silverado. That's the reality of the situation. If the Silverado gets a reliable charger it has a lot more range and charges faster (faster from 0-100, not just faster adding miles). That's a fact for now.

The Silverado is going to cost a lot more on a road trip using DCFC'ers, especially compared to a vehicle using Superchargers excliusively.

People regularly under-estimate the importance of the charge network, not just the reliability and placement, but also the average prices per kWh.

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