Washington bill: SB5377

[Ironalley]

Let keep it open!

 

[SCTesla]

Let keep it open!

Why would it impact warranty and other service activities? In states where Tesla cannot sell, they still have service centers. Is there something in there about Tesla not being able to service as well or is it just fear mongering?

 

[YDR37]

Why would it impact warranty and other service activities? In states where Tesla cannot sell, they still have service centers. Is there something in there about Tesla not being able to service as well or is it just fear mongering?

My understanding is that states can ban manufactures from offering direct-to-consumer service, as well as direct-to-consumer sales. See if you can find a Tesla service center in Alabama.

 

[SCTesla]

My understanding is that states can ban manufactures from offering direct-to-consumer service, as well as direct-to-consumer sales. See if you can find a Tesla service center in Alabama.

That's what it looks like. South Carolina bans Tesla from selling here, but there is a service center.

 

[YDR37]

Other auto manufacturers, like Rivian or Lucid, also use the direct-to-consumer sales model. But Tesla has historically been the top target of the dealer lobby, simply because it is the largest.

However, the dealers have recently discovered an even bigger villain. In the future, Volkswagen wants to sell Scout EVs using the direct-to-consumer model -- even though VW already has a franchised dealer network. That's a huge threat, because if VW can bypass its own dealers and sell directly to consumers, what's to stop Ford or GM from doing the same thing?

 

[guppus]

What is wrong with direct to consumer sales? Is the government trying to “protect” me again?

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Nothing. It’s dealer protectionism. New Mexico has the same crap laws. So Elon put Tesla sales and SCs on tribal land. Expect the same if that crap passes. Washington has a lot of tribal land… Tesla makes nice deals with them for SCs. It’s a win win.

 

[YDR37]

What is wrong with direct to consumer sales? Is the government trying to “protect” me again?

Cars are conspicuous big-ticket items. In many places, especially outside of the big cities, they are the most expensive things you can buy (excluding real estate).

So the local car dealerships collect a lot of money. And sometimes townspeople are sensitive to the perception that all of those profits are flowing out of town, to some big megacorporation in a faraway place like Detroit or Tokyo or wherever.

Those people are often more comfortable with a model where a local businessman, like Billy Bob over at Billy Bob's Chevrolet, acts as a middleman. That way, the big megacorporation has to split the profits with the local boy, and some of that money stays in town.

And Billy Bob is probably a prominent figure in town. He sponsors Little League, puts a Corvette in the Christmas parade every year, and sells Silverado 2500s to the Public Works Dept. at no markup. If the dealership was run directly by a bunch of GM suits in Detroit, would they do the same kind of things for the community?

So it's not just a dealer lobby. There are voters, especially outside of big cities, who really do prefer the local dealership model and don't want to see it threatened.

 

[sharpgator]

That's what it looks like. South Carolina bans Tesla from selling here, but there is a service center.

Alabama has a dealership law. Subsequently no service centers here either. Rumors of change coming.

 

[BlueLightning]

Can’t believe Washingtonians would allow that, being a Tesla state.

Somebody circled in their bubble in the wrong direction?!

 

[guppus]

Cars are conspicuous big-ticket items. In many places, especially outside of the big cities, they are the most expensive things you can buy (excluding real estate).

So the local car dealerships collect a lot of money. And sometimes townspeople are sensitive to the perception that all of those profits are flowing out of town, to some big megacorporation in a faraway place like Detroit or Tokyo or wherever.

Those people are often more comfortable with a model where a local businessman, like Billy Bob over at Billy Bob's Chevrolet, acts as a middleman. That way, the big megacorporation has to split the profits with the local boy, and some of that money stays in town.

And Billy Bob is probably a prominent figure in town. He sponsors Little League, puts a Corvette in the Christmas parade every year, and sells Silverado 2500s to the Public Works Dept. at no markup. If the dealership was run directly by a bunch of GM suits in Detroit, would they do the same kind of things for the community?

So it's not just a dealer lobby. There are voters, especially outside of big cities, who really do prefer the local dealership model and don't want to see it threatened.

Nothing wrong with that as an OPTION for those who need more comfort…dealerships certainly CAN and should exist for those folks but this is a free country with a free market economy and if I want to buy a car without Billy Bob opening the door for me I should be able to.

See, if we all need to move onto Indian Reservations to be truly free we might as well colonize there and have a revolution and declare our independence from the tyrannical…….hey, wait a minute……

 

[Bobo_LaDouche]

Cars are conspicuous big-ticket items. In many places, especially outside of the big cities, they are the most expensive things you can buy (excluding real estate).

[I think it is the opposite that is true. City people buy houses, apartments, and coffee-shop coffee. Rural people buy tractors, mining equipment, oil wells, water well drilling equipment, and other big ticket items.]

So the local car dealerships collect a lot of money.
[There are definitely more car dealerships in the big cities.]

Those people are often more comfortable with a model where a local businessman, like Billy Bob over at Billy Bob's Chevrolet, acts as a middleman. That way, the big megacorporation has to split the profits with the local boy, and some of that money stays in town.
[Yup. Big cities control all the money. For vehicles anyway.]

And Billy Bob is probably a prominent figure in town. He sponsors Little League, puts a Corvette in the Christmas parade every year, and sells Silverado 2500s to the Public Works Dept. at no markup. If the dealership was run directly by a bunch of GM suits in Detroit, would they do the same kind of things for the community?
[In the country, we don't call him Billy Bob. We call him Joe Libtard. He lives in the city. He has bill boards and tv advertisements and buys sweatshirts for the Little League. In the small cities, everyone just knows everyone, so the glad-handing is more about sincerity.]

So it's not just a dealer lobby. There are voters, especially outside of big cities, who really do prefer the local dealership model and don't want to see it threatened.
[And them voters in the big cities control all the voting, for sure].

)))

 

[Crissa]

Let keep it open!

Saldana, (R - Auto Dealers)?

(Looks her up). Oh, a different kind of R, Renton.

Yeah, that tracks. That's not going to sit well with the rest of the party, tho.

Other auto manufacturers, like Rivian or Lucid, also use the direct-to-consumer sales model. But Tesla has historically been the top target of the dealer lobby, simply because it is the largest.

However, the dealers have recently discovered an even bigger villain. In the future, Volkswagen wants to sell Scout EVs using the direct-to-consumer model -- even though VW already has a franchised dealer network. That's a huge threat, because if VW can bypass its own dealers and sell directly to consumers, what's to stop Ford or GM from doing the same thing?

Scout isn't VW. There are no Scout Dealerships. Just as Toyota isn't Lexus and also wasn't Scion.

Sure, sure, you like dealerships outside the big towns, which is why I like that there's only one brand of car sold in my childhood town. Oh, wait, no, I just checked again, zero brands of cars are sold in the county at all.

-Crissa

 

[YDR37]

Nothing wrong with that as an OPTION for those who need more comfort…dealerships certainly CAN and should exist for those folks but this is a free country with a free market economy and if I want to buy a car without Billy Bob opening the door for me I should be able to.

I don't disagree, and I'm not defending the aggressive lobbying by the dealerships. I'm just trying to explain why many people -- and not just car dealers -- are uncomfortable with the direct sales model.

Some people -- maybe most of the people on this forum -- think:
"ew, why would anyone want to haggle over price with a sleazy car dealer?"

And other people think:
"ew, what if your only choice was a non-negotiable offer from a faceless multinational corporation?"

The dealer model can work to the consumer's benefit, because it allows shopping around. If you don't like Billy Bob's best and final offer on a new Silverado ZR2, you are free to drive 40 minutes down the highway, across the county line, to discuss Billy Bob's offer with Big Dave over at Smith Family Motors. Big Dave might be prepared to offer a better deal, if it means that he can steal the sale from Billy Bob (in fact, rumor has it that Big Dave has been pissed at Billy Bob ever since that incident in the parking lot after the football game).

In contrast, shopping around is pointless under the direct-to-consumer model, because every sales outlet has exactly the same pricing, set centrally at corporate HQ. Maybe the suits at HQ will set prices lower than either Big Dave or Billy Bob, but it's not clear that this is necessarily the case.

 

[YDR37]

Scout isn't VW. There are no Scout Dealerships.

VW agrees with your point of view: Scout isn't VW.
The dealers disagree: Scout is controlled by VW, therefore Scout is VW.

It may come down to legal interpretations of whether or not Scout qualifies as an "affiliate" of VW under California law. Apparently state law bars manufacturers -- and their "affiliates" -- from competing directly with their franchised dealers. I am not a lawyer and am not going to offer any opinion.

However, the outcome should not affect companies like Tesla or Rivian, because they have never had franchised dealers.